Train drivers forced back to work

[Ferret]

I don't know - I'm not party to the negotiations! Sunday working may well be a stumbling block and you can bet the DfT will be on EMT's case about providing a reliable Sunday service. That's one way they could guarantee it which may be acceptable to ASLEFs membership, that's all I'm saying

 

[Tomnick]

We can only wait and see!

 

[Hampshire Unit]

Just changing things a little, what are your views on compulsory Christmas day working? As over the last few years that is what Network Rail has tried implementing to some of its signal boxes.

 

[Ferret]

Certainly won't happen with me! Custom & Practice dictates that 25/26 Dec each year are annual leave days and in law, it's now become what's called an implied term in my employment contract. For that reason, I'll not be attending on Christmas day...

 

[TDK]

Really? I'll say again, tell your...ybe you will understand what is going on here

 

[Metroland]

I do work most Sundays, as required, for nothing extra. When I worked for the railways I worked Sundays as required to, If I needed a day off, I asked someone to cover it. If they couldn't, I worked. There was never a situation when I could just have any Sunday off I wanted because the job needed to be covered and I knew that when I took it on.

What's so special about Sundays these days anyway? Years ago (before the 60s) the Railways didn't run Sunday service on many branch lines and secondary routes so staff could attend church, or respect the Sabbath. Those days have long gone.

 

[O L Leigh]

Only if it can be proved that they (or, more likely, ASLEF - who deny that this is the case and, as required by the court injunction, have written to members to say that this is not the case!) collectively organised it to cause disruption, rather than individually getting fed up of EMT's treatment and each deciding to withdraw the 'goodwill' Sunday working.

This is the root of my objection to Metroland's insistance that illegal industrial action has taken place. I am sure the EMT made a strong case that it did so that they could get the Court Order they wanted, but it really is down to a matter of interpretation. However, I am a little disappointed that ASLEF clearly didn't fight their corner as hard as perhaps they could.

The withdrawal of "goodwill" can take many forms, including Rest Day Working bans. None of these constitute illegal industrial action.

It's a really silly practice that Sunday is not part of the working week, but the situation has persisted for some time and has generally worked until now. I expect other TOC employees are watching developments.

We certainly are.

However, what worries me is that one of the likely outcomes is a hard-line response somewhat akin to what you've been championing. I do not believe that bringing Sundays into the working week would be to the benefit of the drivers or the TOC's.

For one thing it would cost the TOC's more money because they would be required to take on additional drivers to ensure that these days are covered. At my depot we have 37 Sunday turns including all spares and standby's, totalling 313 hours and 44 minutes of work. To cover this work by bringing it into the working week we would need an additional 10 drivers. There are obvious costs involved with paying, training and equipping all these drivers, but other costs would be incurred too. We would need an additional driver manager for one thing as the four we currently have are stretched thin enough as it is. It's far cheaper to cover this work on overtime while allowing for an easy way for drivers to make a little extra if they so wish.

Mine are almost the same as what happens at EMT, but not quite. Sundays are overtime, and we can ask for our booked Sundays off if we don't want to work them but if there is no cover then we are obliged to work it. Seems to work quite well to be honest!

This is what happens where I work also and it seems to work very well indeed here too. It gives the company the peace of mind that all the jobs will be covered plus there is flexibility in the system so that those drivers who don't want to work their Sundays can make themselves unavailable with the cover being provided by those that want the extras. It strikes me that this is a good compromise.

Then again, while I can understand Metroland's frustration at the withdrawal of Sunday working en masse, this isn't really what the problems are over at EMT.

O L Leigh

 

[Mintona]

I can see this high court injunction making things worse. I wouldn't be surprised to see official industrial action taken now by ASLEF and EMT Mainline drivers.

 

[Harry Douthwaite]

If you ask me, train drivers should aim to make themselves available if they are needed, however, having weekends as voluntary overtime should not be the way the system operates. The way bus-drivers work here, is that they decide which two (sometimes three) days they wish to have off every week for the month's assignment sheet. If they are not available (e.g Saturday and Sunday shifts need more drivers), the company will usually have a chat with the driver next time he/she arrives and ask if they can change the days they have off.
Have I explained it quite clearly? I hope I have, but if not, please tell me, and I'll try to explain it in a simpler way.

 

[O L Leigh]

Harry: The situation with Sundays is that they are rostered with the assumption that they will be worked by the driver on that line of the roster unless he/she makes themselves unavailable. In most companies this is fine, as there is usually a pool of drivers who have made themselves available for extra Sundays who will cover any vacant jobs.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

One thing we do keep hearing about is 'Goodwill has gone', but re-reading it is not apparent why other than perhaps staff are being asked to work more Sundays than they were - though clearly this is rostered and staff get paid extra for working Sundays in most grades/TOCs as it's outside the working week. Some grades get 'enhaced rates of pay' for overtime.

There is talk of bullying, but what exactly does that mean, being requested to work extra for the company? I'd just like to completely understand all the issues at EMT.

Having said all that, I put it to the people objecting to their possible erosion of terms and conditions', that most staff have done very well out of privatisation, in the mid 1990s the driver's weekly wage was £200 a week, with mileage, DOO and other allowances. EMT salary is now £37k per year, for a 35 hour week, with plenty of potential for overtime. Some drivers are on £50k plus per year. There is also 3 weeks paid holiday (16 days rostered, 8 days by request), plus staff travel, and pension. Mainline drivers get 32 days paid leave, and nearly £38k a year basic. In addition some get £2k London allowance.

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/companies/

Do they also not think it is reasonable in a downturn, when the TOCs are running to the government for more cash and there is less growth in passenger numbers, like the staff in many other industries they should tighten their belt? For example Honda car workers took a pay cut and reduced working week. Most of the private companies are earning a few % profit, commonly agreed to be in general 'pretty modest', so clearly it is not an issue of 'grabbing everything for the shareholders'. It seems more an issue of inefficient working practices and red tape.

 

[Ferret]

Metroland, I take your point about drivers wages having increased substantially - however to me they are now paid a fair wage for the unsocial hours they do, and the nature of the work as well.

As for the bit about tightening belts, these companies made a monumental fortune out of the 'boom' years, yet as soon as there's a bust, the very people who made them all that money by working those hours are expected to pay the penalty? The fact that EMT/NXEC overbid on their premium payments to the Government is not something that the employees should have to suffer for...

 

[O L Leigh]

One thing we do keep hearing about is 'Goodwill has gone', but re-reading it is not apparent why other than perhaps staff are being asked to work more Sundays than they were - though clearly this is rostered and staff get paid extra for working Sundays in most grades/TOCs as it's outside the working week. Some grades get 'enhaced rates of pay' for overtime.

There is talk of bullying, but what exactly does that mean, being requested to work extra for the company? I'd just like to completely understand all the issues at EMT.

Forgive me for crowing, but at last...!!!

I've been saying for the past couple of days that the cause of this upset is not about Sunday working no matter what the public pronouncements of the TOC and ASLEF suggest. I'm glad that you've finally made the leap.

Like you I don't know precisely what is going on over at EMT, which is why I've been holding back a bit. I have heard a number of rumours that suggest the company want to make wholesale changes to their drivers conditions of working. However, that is just rumours. I think the only way that you'll ever get properly to the bottom of this is to talk to an EMT driver.

O L Leigh

 

[glynn80]

I have heard from some EMT staff, that not only are EMT managers being trained to operate the mainline but also SWT managers are being trained on some of EMT's Local routes. Likely to utilise 158s due to their similarity with 159s.

Whether this will infuriate the drivers further or will force them back to work due to the loss of their bargaining power, I have no idea, but at least Stagecoach are being proactive about the issue.

 

[EM2]

Forgive me for crowing, but at last...!!!
Like you I don't know precisely what is going on over at EMT, which is why I've been holding back a bit. I have heard a number of rumours that suggest the company want to make wholesale changes to their drivers conditions of working. However, that is just rumours. I think the only way that you'll ever get properly to the bottom of this is to talk to an EMT driver.

I have learnt from an EMT driver that not only do EMT want to make quite radical changes to driver's T&Cs but that ex-CT and ex-MML drivers are being treated quite differently, and there will not be harmonisation between the two groups.

 

[Mintona]

I don't want to divulge too much, but having heard it "direct from the horses mouth" (EMT driver) it is all over harmonisation. Ex-CT drivers are being much better looked after than ex-MML drivers.

 

[Metroland]

Forgive me for crowing, but at last...!!!

I've been saying for the past couple of days that the cause of this upset is not about Sunday working no matter what the public pronouncements of the TOC and ASLEF suggest. I'm glad that you've finally made the leap.

Like you I don't know precisely what is going on over at EMT, which is why I've been holding back a bit. I have heard a number of rumours that suggest the company want to make wholesale changes to their drivers conditions of working. However, that is just rumours. I think the only way that you'll ever get properly to the bottom of this is to talk to an EMT driver.

O L Leigh

With respect though, it up to the drivers to communicate their grievance though their union. You see what has infuriated me about this case, is even the company doesn't exactly know why they have refused to work on Sunday, let alone passengers. I have some sympathy with the good will needed toward staff, I also have sympathy about private companies not providing value for money as well. But my concern is this may lead to either franchises being handed back, or job losses elsewhere, or less goodwill from passengers, which whether anyone likes it or not is the most important thing.

You have said yourself that if National Express pulled the plug on their franchises, it would be bad for the railway. Despite some thinking that would be a good thing, as you know I completely disagree. While there is no sign of it happening in this case, it doesn't mean it can't happen.

My fear, especially with the incoming government, that is known to dislike subsidy, eventually we are going to get to a stage with job losses or worse. I have been called naive, but I believe staff are being very naive in not being alive to this possibility.

 

[Ferret]

I bet the company know full well why the drivers have thrown in their Sundays en masse!!! It's just that they won't say publicly...!

With regard to job losses, well, they've already started!!! Admittedly not train crew, but you do wonder if it will come to that one day...

 

[Mystic Force]

If people give up conditions in the bad times I don't think companies will give it back willingly in the good times. Wages maybe but conditions unlikely. Drivers need proper rest otherwise we the travelling public are at risk

 

[O L Leigh]

If people give up conditions in the bad times I don't think companies will give it back willingly in the good times. Wages maybe but conditions unlikely.

No, not even then.

As you rightly observe, once conditions are gone they're gone. But when it comes to wages, the trend seems to be that any advantage the drivers achieve is quickly rubbed out in subsequent pay deals.

My colleagues on the GE side sold a lot of their conditions of service and yet they are only about £1000 ahead of us in terms of annual gross salary. Admittedly they have some conditions relating to their rest days that are different, but GE drivers that have come across to the WA side have confessed that they can't believe how easy we have it in comparison to what they knew before.

However, I agree that conditions are king. As I continually try to impress on my colleagues it's all well and good selling out for a nice looking basic rate of pay, but what you're left with at the end of the day is the job you have to do to get that. There's no point having a healthy looking bank balance if you're too knackered to spend it. To me, no amount of money is worth giving up our existing conditions for something like 24 hour signing on.

O L Leigh