Train driver work life balance

[Stigy]

Difference is that I’ve been on the railway since I was 16 and am now 56. My whole career has been mainly shift work and I arrange my life totally around the job. Never wanted children so that’s never come into the equation. In a career like train driving it’s no good wanting a happy family life balance as it really doesn’t exist. Money is damn good though

I disagree. We still get enough time off to spend with family, and in my experience, swapping block leave is never too bad for holidays etc, because a lot of people without children naturally don’t want holidays during “expensive season”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2024 ==

For a very long time I have wanted to be a train driver. I put my name down for job alerts around 9 years ago before I had children. I finally got a job alert and have been through the initial application process and have my assessments early next year. I feel so happy about this but I now don’t know if it’s going to work with my current lifestyle.

I have 2 young children and I currently work full time from home with the odd office day. I am here every morning and every evening for them. I’ve never missed an event and even though they go to childcare whilst I work, I pick them up ASAP. My partner also works full time and is out of the house from 6.30am-6pm.

The TOC is going to be First GWR. How are they generally with working parents? What kind of shift pattern can I expect? Is there a way to have an arrangement of consistent shifts so that childcare can be arranged? My partner is willing to adjust his work for me to be able to do this but it’s not something that will be quick. He will have to go from being employed to self employed and that obviously takes time as he’ll need customers.

Thank you in advance for any help!

At GWR you’ll know what you’re working in six month chunks, but can plan ahead for as long as you want/need to using the base roster (turn types may change, but the shift pattern won’t).

Bear in mind you can request flexible working from day one of employment now, although you won’t be that popular, and to be honest, it’ll unlikely be approached due to the nature of the job, especially during training.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Quite a few couples at my toc do a permanent shift. So one does permanent earlies and the other does permanent lates. Honestly I don't know how they do it.

Sounds great for if you don’t really like your other half. Sometimes roster changes can throw everything out too. Not an ideal way to live your life.

 

[D3WY]

Are you starting on the 6ths for a FOC if so you’ll be on the same course as me.

I'm on the 13th at go ahead house for induction

 

[RailExplorer]

My life as a driver (MTR EL) is probably somewhat different to most. My wife works 9-5 from home, with perhaps a weekly office day required although not mandated.We have one kid who we home educate. So school holidays, term times, school pick up etc isn't an issue.

My base roster and what I actually work and not alike in the slightest - everything evolves around shift swaps for me. This is either to make childcare work (less of that now than 2 years ago as she's now at an age she can entertain herself for several hours at a time). The other reason I do shift swaps is to travel.

I can't think of any other job that allows me to have the lifestyle I've now got. In 2024 I was abroad travelling for 150 days. That's my life. My daughter (and 50% of the time my wife) travels with me/us. I feel like I have so much family time with my wife and daughter that sometimes I don't feel like I'm even working. But I do find the job easy too. I make it work for me. But it took a while to realise what I needed/wanted and I've managed to mold my work (even though we are of course on a roster) to suit my lifestyle, but admittedly it could change in a heartbeat.

 

[AverageJoe]

My life as a driver (MTR EL) is probably somewhat different to most. My wife works 9-5 from home, with perhaps a weekly office day required although not mandated.We have one kid who we home educate. So school holidays, term times, school pick up etc isn't an issue.

My base roster and what I actually work and not alike in the slightest - everything evolves around shift swaps for me. This is either to make childcare work (less of that now than 2 years ago as she's now at an age she can entertain herself for several hours at a time). The other reason I do shift swaps is to travel.

I can't think of any other job that allows me to have the lifestyle I've now got. In 2024 I was abroad travelling for 150 days. That's my life. My daughter (and 50% of the time my wife) travels with me/us. I feel like I have so much family time with my wife and daughter that sometimes I don't feel like I'm even working. But I do find the job easy too. I make it work for me. But it took a while to realise what I needed/wanted and I've managed to mold my work (even though we are of course on a roster) to suit my lifestyle, but admittedly it could change in a heartbeat.

I’m pretty good at linking my days off with AL and DL to get plenty of time off…
But 150 days? Almost half the year.
That must be involving tons of swaps and it can’t be great for route knowledge and keeping up with any changes.

How are the management with it?

 

[Twotwo]

I’m pretty good at linking my days off with AL and DL to get plenty of time off…
But 150 days? Almost half the year.
That must be involving tons of swaps and it can’t be great for route knowledge and keeping up with any changes.

How are the management with it?

Some tocs have 2 weeks off every 10 weeks. They work 8 weeks of whatever pattern it is, then have a week of rest days and the other week is their AL built in

 

[Lewisham2221]

I’m pretty good at linking my days off with AL and DL to get plenty of time off…
But 150 days? Almost half the year.
That must be involving tons of swaps and it can’t be great for route knowledge and keeping up with any changes.

How are the management with it?

Just a standard 4-day week gives 156 rest days. Add in annual leave, and you're pretty much at exactly half a year not at work, give or take a few days. Even a an early finish going into 2 rest days and then back onto lates gives the chance for a couple of days abroad. It sounds extreme but it's certainly doable.

 

[RailExplorer]

I’m pretty good at linking my days off with AL and DL to get plenty of time off…
But 150 days? Almost half the year.
That must be involving tons of swaps and it can’t be great for route knowledge and keeping up with any changes.

How are the management with it?

Our roster is basically 7.5 weeks at work, 2.5 weeks off work (with some AL built in) plus 9 ad-hoc AL days. It's an average 4-day week.

I've done something like a 5, 3, 2, 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 3 week trips in 2024 (one week was unpaid using parental leave). Management has no say in the matter & route knowledge isn't an issue. Keeping up to date with changes and keeping my license clean has never been an issue either.

This works for our family due to the home education route - but if my daughter attended school, this particular set up wouldn't work. Her education is done whilst travelling. Work, even though full time and on a roster now feels like a part time activity that barely gets in the way of life.

However, our depot has about 150 drivers and someone is usually willing to swap to whatever you need. We all have different priorities and we have a WhatsApp group dedicated to swaps that has at least one message per day if not more. Today for example I'm on 3-way swap. I was originally on a rest day. Then I offered to cover someone's late shift. Then someone wanted my late shift for their early shift.

 

[12LDA28C]

My life as a driver (MTR EL) is probably somewhat different to most. My wife works 9-5 from home, with perhaps a weekly office day required although not mandated.We have one kid who we home educate. So school holidays, term times, school pick up etc isn't an issue.

My base roster and what I actually work and not alike in the slightest - everything evolves around shift swaps for me. This is either to make childcare work (less of that now than 2 years ago as she's now at an age she can entertain herself for several hours at a time). The other reason I do shift swaps is to travel.

I can't think of any other job that allows me to have the lifestyle I've now got. In 2024 I was abroad travelling for 150 days. That's my life. My daughter (and 50% of the time my wife) travels with me/us. I feel like I have so much family time with my wife and daughter that sometimes I don't feel like I'm even working. But I do find the job easy too. I make it work for me. But it took a while to realise what I needed/wanted and I've managed to mold my work (even though we are of course on a roster) to suit my lifestyle, but admittedly it could change in a heartbeat.

This seems like a rather unconventional lifestyle. How do you manage to homeschool your child if you are away half the time and your wife is working from home? Constantly swapping your shifts with multiple colleagues sounds like a lot of hard work. How long have you been driving for EL?

 

[Twotwo]

This seems like a rather unconventional lifestyle. How do you manage to homeschool your child if you are away half the time and your wife is working from home? Constantly swapping your shifts with multiple colleagues sounds like a lot of hard work. How long have you been driving for EL?

I have a permanent swap and then ill swap some line here and there for a shift pattern or RD patterns I need. I managed to get rid of my night shifts but then took some nights from another driver. Quite often do a 3 way swap and it all gets complicated but rosters are used to it I suppose

 

[Surreytraveller]

My 20p worth. I'm not a driver, but do shift work. I find I go to more school events than my partner who does 9 to 5.
With shifts, you are there one or other end of the day to pick up or drop off, or even both if you're on a rest day, rather than having wrap around childcare at both ends all of the time (although had to pay for both ends all the time for the flexibility).
It's not all negative.

 

[AverageJoe]

Our roster is basically 7.5 weeks at work, 2.5 weeks off work (with some AL built in) plus 9 ad-hoc AL days. It's an average 4-day week.

I've done something like a 5, 3, 2, 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 3 week trips in 2024 (one week was unpaid using parental leave). Management has no say in the matter & route knowledge isn't an issue. Keeping up to date with changes and keeping my license clean has never been an issue either.

This works for our family due to the home education route - but if my daughter attended school, this particular set up wouldn't work. Her education is done whilst travelling. Work, even though full time and on a roster now feels like a part time activity that barely gets in the way of life.

However, our depot has about 150 drivers and someone is usually willing to swap to whatever you need. We all have different priorities and we have a WhatsApp group dedicated to swaps that has at least one message per day if not more. Today for example I'm on 3-way swap. I was originally on a rest day. Then I offered to cover someone's late shift. Then someone wanted my late shift for their early shift.

Fair play to you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2024 ==

Just a standard 4-day week gives 156 rest days. Add in annual leave, and you're pretty much at exactly half a year not at work, give or take a few days. Even a an early finish going into 2 rest days and then back onto lates gives the chance for a couple of days abroad. It sounds extreme but it's certainly doable.

But to have all of those days abroad takes some doing!

 

[RailExplorer]

This seems like a rather unconventional lifestyle. How do you manage to homeschool your child if you are away half the time and your wife is working from home? Constantly swapping your shifts with multiple colleagues sounds like a lot of hard work. How long have you been driving for EL?

She is homeschooled as part of the travels (travel is educational) - imagine you want to learn about religion - well off you go to the country in question and learn, same about Ancient Egypt - go to Egypt not a classroom, same about volcanoes - take a walk up Etna, learn a 5th language for her (We already have 4 "home" languages)... Well go to the country in question and practice... The list of possibilities is endless. We do bits at home too (more the math and English language aspects) and social meet ups etc. It's a fun lifestyle. I'm learning more now than I ever did at school!!!!

EL now for 6 years, a different TOC as a driver before (which also included time as a DTM and Ops Standards). I've got a well organised spreadsheet dating back 13 years on the railway. I could tell you who I swapped with, what I worked versus what the base roster said, how much overtime I got on the day etc on any day back to about 2011. Never had a swap fail on my watch. Never been paid underpaid by even a minute. It's all about planning.

 

[piers1234]

She is homeschooled as part of the travels (travel is educational) - imagine you want to learn about religion - well off you go to the country in question and learn, same about Ancient Egypt - go to Egypt not a classroom, same about volcanoes - take a walk up Etna, learn a 5th language for her (We already have 4 "home" languages)... Well go to the country in question and practice... The list of possibilities is endless. We do bits at home too (more the math and English language aspects) and social meet ups etc. It's a fun lifestyle. I'm learning more now than I ever did at school!!!!

Total respect to you.

People think children only learn in the classroom. That is totally wrong.

Want to learn a language than go to the country and speak with locals.

It's a British thing that all people should speak English!!

Sorry a bit off topic.

 

[RailExplorer]

Total respect to you.

People think children only learn in the classroom. That is totally wrong.

Want to learn a language than go to the country and speak with locals.

It's a British thing that all people should speak English!!

Sorry a bit off topic.

I'm probably wandering off topic too.

My ultimate point was...
The job can be what you want to make of it with the acceptance you can't have absolutely everything in life.

For some it's stressful, for others it's not (I go to work to relax).
Some enjoy shift work and the time off that gives, others don't and wish they did 9-5 and had weekends off.
Some say you miss out on life experiences, in my opinion the job enables you to do more with your life.

The one thing that can make a difference are your colleagues. How many are there (I like the big depots)? What stage of life are they in (do they all want the same time off as you)? Etc.

Everyone is different.

 

[DylanBob1966]

"I put my name down for job alerts around 9 years ago before I had children. I finally got a job alert and have been through the initial application process and have my assessments early next year. I feel so happy about this but I now don’t know if it’s going to work with my current"

Hiya - can I ask how this works? I've just set up a few job alerts on the First Careers page, and I just presumed they will notify me every time a job is advertised in the area I want? Why did they not alert you for 9 years?! Am I missing something?

As for family/work balance, I am also considering the profession and have 3 children (including a 1 month year old!). The big problem as far as I am concerned is I will be losing weekend time with the family, which I have always found makes up for the odd bedtime story I miss at the moment.

Best of luck with your assessments, I am sure you will smash it.

 

[reastreetmetro]

The way some drivers describe it sounds like the railway is like working down the pit

I'm a guard and at our TOC we work the same shift system as drivers i.e. 4 day week, earlies followed by lates, tonnes of leave.

I spent first 10 years of my working life on the buses. It's a DIFFERENT WORLD on the railway.

This is your dream job and you've got a supportive partner. Take your sleep and lifestyle seriously, treat the job with respect. Go for it!

P.s. I've 3 kids too

 

[AverageJoe]

Not really, we are just being realistic and encouraging him to weight up the pro’s and cons.

No offence mate but guard and driver come with different responsibilities and different demands for concentration which in itself is tiring.

 

[kmw89]

Not really, we are just being realistic and encouraging him to weight up the pro’s and cons.

No offence mate but guard and driver come with different responsibilities and different demands for concentration which in itself is tiring.

I do feel like a lot of your messages in particular sound negative. Are you okay?

I’m a she btw!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==

"I put my name down for job alerts around 9 years ago before I had children. I finally got a job alert and have been through the initial application process and have my assessments early next year. I feel so happy about this but I now don’t know if it’s going to work with my current"

Hiya - can I ask how this works? I've just set up a few job alerts on the First Careers page, and I just presumed they will notify me every time a job is advertised in the area I want? Why did they not alert you for 9 years?! Am I missing something?

As for family/work balance, I am also considering the profession and have 3 children (including a 1 month year old!). The big problem as far as I am concerned is I will be losing weekend time with the family, which I have always found makes up for the odd bedtime story I miss at the moment.

Best of luck with your assessments, I am sure you will smash it.

It was 9 years because according to my job alerts they didn’t advertise any trainee train driver roles in that time. I was only set up for trainee train driver alerts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==

I'm probably wandering off topic too.

My ultimate point was...
The job can be what you want to make of it with the acceptance you can't have absolutely everything in life.

For some it's stressful, for others it's not (I go to work to relax).
Some enjoy shift work and the time off that gives, others don't and wish they did 9-5 and had weekends off.
Some say you miss out on life experiences, in my opinion the job enables you to do more with your life.

The one thing that can make a difference are your colleagues. How many are there (I like the big depots)? What stage of life are they in (do they all want the same time off as you)? Etc.

Everyone is different.

I’d love to home educate. The school system failed me and I feel like already it will fail my son. I can already see it in him that he is a ‘hands on doer’ and not an ‘academic sit on his arser’. I wholly agree with you on the fact that kids learn from experience and not just in a class room. I taught my son to count to 100 out on walks by looking at door numbers. We learnt colours by looking at cars. He’s learnt letters and phonics from street signs

Thank you for your input!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==

My 20p worth. I'm not a driver, but do shift work. I find I go to more school events than my partner who does 9 to 5.
With shifts, you are there one or other end of the day to pick up or drop off, or even both if you're on a rest day, rather than having wrap around childcare at both ends all of the time (although had to pay for both ends all the time for the flexibility).
It's not all negative.

I can see that. My job role currently is “9-5” although I work 8.30-4. When my son starts school in September I’d be dropping down to 9-3 so we don’t have to use the school wrap around care. Kids are only small for a very short time. I don’t want to be shoving him in wrap around care and school from 7-6 5 days a week. He’s with a child minder atm which feels very homely so I don’t get too much guilt.

I’m going for the assessments and just seeing what happens.

 

[AverageJoe]

I do feel like a lot of your messages in particular sound negative. Are you okay?

I’m a she btw!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==


It was 9 years because according to my job alerts they didn’t advertise any trainee train driver roles in that time. I was only set up for trainee train driver alerts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==


I’d love to home educate. The school system failed me and I feel like already it will fail my son. I can already see it in him that he is a ‘hands on doer’ and not an ‘academic sit on his arser’. I wholly agree with you on the fact that kids learn from experience and not just in a class room. I taught my son to count to 100 out on walks by looking at door numbers. We learnt colours by looking at cars. He’s learnt letters and phonics from street signs

Thank you for your input!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==


I can see that. My job role currently is “9-5” although I work 8.30-4. When my son starts school in September I’d be dropping down to 9-3 so we don’t have to use the school wrap around care. Kids are only small for a very short time. I don’t want to be shoving him in wrap around care and school from 7-6 5 days a week. He’s with a child minder atm which feels very homely so I don’t get too much guilt.

I’m going for the assessments and just seeing what happens.

Am I ok? Sounds a little condescending considering I’m offering information that is helpful.

The positives of the position are pretty clear and well known.
Most people will tell you it’s the best job ever so I was giving you some genuine negatives so you can make a choice based on having the full pro’s and cons.

I mean you are literally asking the question of work life balance and I gave you my answer on it.

 

[kmw89]

Am I ok? Sounds a little condescending considering I’m offering information that is helpful.

The positives of the position are pretty clear and well known.
Most people will tell you it’s the best job ever so I was giving you some genuine negatives so you can make a choice based on having the full pro’s and cons.

I mean you are literally asking the question of work life balance and I gave you my answer on it.

No, it’s not condescending. I’m genuinely asking you if you are okay? You talk about caffeine reliance, loss of muscle mass, not being able to go to the gym even though it’s something you’ve always enjoyed, not being able to sleep when you need to, feeling wrecked at the end of the working day/week. All comments for someone that sounds like they could be struggling.

 

[43066]

No, it’s not condescending. I’m genuinely asking you if you are okay? You talk about caffeine reliance, loss of muscle mass, not being able to go to the gym even though it’s something you’ve always enjoyed, not being able to sleep when you need to, feeling wrecked at the end of the working day/week. All comments for someone that sounds like they could be struggling.

Just don’t underestimate the demands of shift work, and traincrew shift work is particularly brutal. It hits you like a train, so to speak(!) And can be a major shock if you’re coming from a 9-5 type background, as I did.

I read @AverageJoe ’s posts as trying to forewarn you of that, rather then being unduly negative; it really is something to keep in mind. So many on here seem to see becoming as a driver as a golden ticket. It has many advantages, for sure, but it also has significant drawbacks.

 

[AverageJoe]

All comments that sound like someone doing shift work.

Don’t pretend you are concerned about my health, your first comment was you being condescending.

good luck on your application. Take care

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==

Just don’t underestimate the demands of shift work, and traincrew shift work is particularly brutal. It hits you like a train, so to speak(!) And can be a major shock if you’re coming from a 9-5 type background, as I did.

I read @AverageJoe ’s posts as trying to forewarn you of that, rather then being unduly negative; it really is something to keep in mind. So many on here seem to see becoming as a driver as a golden ticket. It has many advantages, for sure, but it also has significant drawbacks.

Thank you. It’s nice to know someone was able to understand my motives.

 

[dctraindriver]

No, it’s not condescending. I’m genuinely asking you if you are okay? You talk about caffeine reliance, loss of muscle mass, not being able to go to the gym even though it’s something you’ve always enjoyed, not being able to sleep when you need to, feeling wrecked at the end of the working day/week. All comments for someone that sounds like they could be struggling.

Averagejoe is talking sense. I’ve done shift work most of my adult life. Most of that was structured. Railway shifts are something else, I guess there’s a few other occupations like it, flying maybe?

When you’re on the 4th or 5th dead early starting about 3.30 am, after a couple of random days before where they’ve moved your base start times so you have a minimum 12 hours in between shifts, you try dragging your backside to the gym. Dragging a smile out of your face some days can even be hard work.

And try going to sleep at 7pm for an early start in the summer months, extremely taxing.

To say it sounds in your opinion like his struggling, when you get through the training and you’ve walked a mile in his shoes you’ll get what he’s going on about.

Most of us manage the extremities of the shifts most of the time, but when you’re fatigued and having to deal with an emergency situation, a train fault or degraded working it really can take its toll.

To sum up; some weeks are knackering and leave you feeling meh, some weeks don’t. It’s a cracking job, just consider what everyone is saying on here. Rose tinted specs can fog up quickly once the reality sets in for some.

 

[Neatro]

Averagejoe is talking sense. I’ve done shift work most of my adult life. Most of that was structured. Railway shifts are something else, I guess there’s a few other occupations like it, flying maybe?

When you’re on the 4th or 5th dead early starting about 3.30 am, after a couple of random days before where they’ve moved your base start times so you have a minimum 12 hours in between shifts, you try dragging your backside to the gym. Dragging a smile out of your face some days can even be hard work.

And try going to sleep at 7pm for an early start in the summer months, extremely taxing.

To say it sounds in your opinion like his struggling, when you get through the training and you’ve walked a mile in his shoes you’ll get what he’s going on about.

Most of us manage the extremities of the shifts most of the time, but when you’re fatigued and having to deal with an emergency situation, a train fault or degraded working it really can take its toll.

To sum up; some weeks are knackering and leave you feeling meh, some weeks don’t. It’s a cracking job, just consider what everyone is saying on here. Rose tinted specs can fog up quickly once the reality sets in for some.

But on the flip side of this, what is being described is also work related stress and I know because I was off for 3 months because of it (railway shift life).

I didn't feel any different its just what I was used to, feeling drained after days/weeks of similar shifts, the days being problematic and then you think you leave it at home but it doesn't.

It was only when my family spotted I was acting different that I went to the doctors and they spotted it immediately through the first couple of questions.

Their post may have been condescending but what they described are also symptoms of the start of mental/physical health issues if they continue long enough without a plan in place.

Hopefully this isn't anyone on here, just wanted to add another side to the discussion.

 

[AverageJoe]

But on the flip side of this, what is being described is also work related stress and I know because I was off for 3 months because of it (railway shift life).

I didn't feel any different its just what I was used to, feeling drained after days/weeks of similar shifts, the days being problematic and then you think you leave it at home but it doesn't.

It was only when my family spotted I was acting different that I went to the doctors and they spotted it immediately through the first couple of questions.

Their post may have been condescending but what they described are also symptoms of the start of mental/physical health issues if they continue long enough without a plan in place.

Hopefully this isn't anyone on here, just wanted to add another side to the discussion.

What I am describing is the extreme side of the job which I am pointing out to help potential new drivers have an idea of what it can be like since they have asked about work like balance.

The things I described are not everyday but are things that will happen to most if not all drivers in their work life and it is cruel to not point this out if someone is asking the question.

I in no way feel work related stress.

I appreciate the sentiment but please don’t try to diagnose me on a public forum.

I didn’t ask for you to do that and you are incorrect.

The snippets she has taken to defend her comment have all been taken without full context. If she was genuinely concerned she would have private messaged me or at least not left it days apart before checking back on me.

In my opinion she was being condescending and I called her out on it and now she is trying to form a defence.

Next time someone asks this question about work life balance I’m going to avoid doing the considerate thing and just say what others do “best job ever, go for it”.

Hopefully I won’t then get diagnosed as being delusional and euphoric

 

[transportphoto]

I’m going to bring this thread to a close.