Train Driver Gets Lost

[Lawman]

Folks,
Story in Todays News Of The World......Service from London Victoria to Brighton was stopped early in its journey as the Driver "did not know the way".

Passengers were informed of this much to their amusement. A wee delay occured until a new driver attended (who knew the way) and they continued their journey.

Rather than have extensive route knowledge training & on the job training, why not just slap a red L plate sign on the front of the train .. (joke)

 

[Twoonthebuzzer]

Probably just a case of the Driver didn't sign the route! So when the passengers heard this, they took it to mean the driver didn't know the way!

Drivers have to go through extensive route learning for all routes they sign! They wouldn't just drive a train and follow the path the siggie sets!!

 

[northwichcat]

Story also here: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8948...se_driver_didn_t_know_how_to_get_to_Brighton/

Driver who took the train out was due to sign Victoria-Gatwick and another driver was due to take the train from Gatwick to Brighton. However, the second driver was delayed and the first driver informed them of a delay and said he couldn't take the train to Brighton.

 

[175001]

Ah the media, you got to love um...................................

 

[GB]

another non-story :roll:

 

[SouthEastern-465]

And I see the News of the World only told only part of the story...

 

[yorkie]

I think the Railway have shot themselves in the foot by giving this reason. It would be better to simply say something like "Apologies for the delay, but a driver change is scheduled to take place at Gatwick, and the driver allocated to take the train forward is delayed."

You can't expect a driver to know routes they do not sign, however the issue here is that London to Brighton really isn't that far, and it does seem a bit odd that drivers would changeover (due to route knowledge issues) on such a short route. It would be normal practice for drivers to sign a bit beyond the point at which they normally changeover too, in case of delays and having to change crew at another location. However in this case there are good historical reasons (ie, the merger of two franchises) for some drivers to only sign as far as Gatwick, I would guess that Southern are probably working on expanding drivers route knowledge so that changeovers are not required en-route in future, but the process is not complete.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I think the Railway have shot themselves in the foot by giving this reason. It would be better to simply say something like "Apologies for the delay, but a driver change is scheduled to take place at Gatwick, and the driver allocated to take the train forward is delayed."

You can't expect a driver to know routes they do not sign, however the issue here is that London to Brighton really isn't that far, and it does seem a bit odd that drivers would changeover on such a short route. It would be normal practice for drivers to sign a bit beyond the point at which they normally changeover too, in case of delays and having to change crew at another location. However in this case there are good historical reasons (ie, the merger of two franchises) for some drivers to only sign as far as Gatwick, I would guess that Southern are probably working on expanding drivers route knowledge so that changeovers are not required en-route in future, but the process is not complete.

Fully agree with that.

 

[Anon Mouse]

This kind of reporting boils my p*ss.

The whole point of drivers signing the road is for safety, but the papers like to attack the railways as its percived as an easy target. Imagine the story, if the driver who did not sign the road, took the signalled road. There is a problem with sighting a signal which somebody who signed the road would know about. The Driver SPADS and the train ploughs into the back of a packed commuter train......

 

[RPM]

Not this hoary old chestnut again! I despair. I really do.:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

It would be normal practice for drivers to sign a bit beyond the point at which they normally changeover too, in case of delays and having to change crew at another location.

A story that would do the railways no credit that the media didn't pick up on was a late afternoon Northern Rail Preston-Buxton service one day terminated at Manchester Oxford Road. The reason was because a taxi hadn't arrived to take the changeover driver or guard from Piccadilly to Oxford Road. When the driver or guard (whichever one it was) did get to Oxford Road around 40 minutes late (!) the crew were instructed to take the unit ECS to Hazel Grove and to start the return working at Hazel Grove (meaning the Buxton-Hazel Grove part of the return working was cancelled.)

The fact is the crew that had alighted at Oxford Road would have been able to sign the train to Piccadilly. However, at platform 13 it would have required a quick crew change over.

I sometimes wonder whether Northern getting operator of the year is mainly down to all the media criticism of operators serving the South East: Southern, Southeastern, FCC, South West Trains, FGW, LM, VT, EC, NXEA etc. have all been criticised in national papers.

 

[Matt Taylor]

You can't expect a driver to know routes they do not sign, however the issue here is that London to Brighton really isn't that far, and it does seem a bit odd that drivers would changeover (due to route knowledge issues) on such a short route.

It is quite a common practice, I sign Waterloo to Woking so I could quite easily work a Guildford stopper as far as Woking but then be relieved by another crew for the final stretch to Guildford. Similar things happen on the Waterloo-Basingstoke route for example and I would be surprised if other operators did not do the same.

 

[Anon Mouse]

I only sign our main routes and one diversion, this is not through personal choice but due to it not being deemed necessary by the powers that be and that it would be more costly to have to refresh diversionary routes that we may never work upon for a very long time.

 

[Firestarter]

This is the best bit: Bobby Adejare, 33 from Roedean Road, Brighton, was returning from his job as an exhibition organiser when he heard the bizarre message.

He said: “It was a bit of a surprise to hear the driver being so honest.

“Everybody on the train took it in good humour but that was partly because we only had to wait about ten minutes.

“We might have reacted differently if we had to wait there longer.

“I know it’s probably quite complicated to drive a train but how hard is it to get to Brighton from Gatwick, you’ve just got to go straight.”

 

[mickey]

Probably just a case of the Driver didn't sign the route! So when the passengers heard this, they took it to mean the driver didn't know the way!

I don't disagree with anything written above, but really this is kind of true!

It would be better to simply say something like "Apologies for the delay, but a driver change is scheduled to take place at Gatwick, and the driver allocated to take the train forward is delayed."

Then they'd say 'well it's not far, can't our old one just take us anyway? You can't win, remember!

I'm actually happy someone was honest for a change. The number of lies told by announcers gets annoying sometimes.

 

[BestWestern]

Bottom line is, as ever, that those in the redtop rag trade make complete arses of themselves upon attempting to 'report' something they know **** all about ("Train goes through wash with passengers on, golly gosh!!!" etc). They don't bother with any half decent research, instead trying to imply being clever by writing about a field to which they are totally ignorant. They're generally just after a lame, easy and thus crappily-reported 'story'. As a former PCV driver it generally tends to be the same with anything bus-related. Just clueless morons most of 'em. Good job I never have to pay for my paper!

 

[notadriver]

I think though with buses, it usually is the drivers faults in the sense that if a bus hits something or someone, the driver is deemed to be at fault, will be breathalysed etc.

 

[BestWestern]

There's plenty of media ignorance to basic facts, as with railway reporting. Obviously in some cases a bus/coach Driver is responsible for an accident, in which case it's generally a fair cop, but plenty of slant is included in many stories, particularly where services/operators are being harrangued. I also find it irritating when a Hack will include details which are irrelevant to the story and get them wrong, i.e. naming a type of vehicle or piece of equipment or some such, for no reason other than to bulk out the page and try to sound clever and informative. Clearly they've asked someone who knows almost as little as they do, and just not bothered to check. Grrr....

 

[mickey]

I think though with buses, it usually is the drivers faults in the sense that if a bus hits something or someone, the driver is deemed to be at fault, will be breathalysed etc.

Yes s/he will be breathalysed, as will any driver in an accident, but there is no automatic assumption that the bus driver is at fault - and this tends to be followed imo by media reporting. Obviously it's big news if fault is assigned, but more often it's an accident - or even someone else's fault - and the driver is just as hurt as the 'victim'.

 

[66526]

A train driver will also be tested for drug and alcohol in the event of an incident. It isn't an indication of guilt.

 

[notadriver]

How fast do your train go anyway ? (I asked in a previous thread but you might have missed it)

 

[westcoaster]

How fast do your train go anyway ? (I asked in a previous thread but you might have missed it)

on that section of line 90mph.

 

[notadriver]

on that section of line 90mph.

Sorry not you - i meant James 66256

 

[66526]

Not permitted to run at more than 30mph (50kmh)

 

[driver9000]

The fact is the crew that had alighted at Oxford Road would have been able to sign the train to Piccadilly. However, at platform 13 it would have required a quick crew change over.

That would depend on which depot the crew that got off were from, my route knowledge ends at Oxford Road. I'm not allowed to drive to Piccadilly. It does strike me as strange that a taxi was the method of transport between Picadilly and Oxford Road for the relieving crew though given the short distance and high number of trains between the two points. Victoria to Oxford Road is normally staff car/taxi though.

 

[northwichcat]

That would depend on which depot the crew that got off were from, my route knowledge ends at Oxford Road. I'm not allowed to drive to Piccadilly. It does strike me as strange that a taxi was the method of transport between Picadilly and Oxford Road for the relieving crew though given the short distance and high number of trains between the two points. Victoria to Oxford Road is normally staff car/taxi though.

OK but does your depot sign the Preston-Oxford Road section of the Preston-Hazel Grove service which gets extended to Buxton in the evening peak?

I was at Piccadilly when the train was announced as delayed by 5 minutes, delayed by 7 minutes, 9 minutes, 12 minutes then cancelled (or something like that.) There were also announcements asking for a Northern crew member called xxx to urgently make themselves known. After posting this previously a Northern member of staff explained about the train being terminated at Oxford Road because of a missing crew member who was at Piccadilly when they should have been at Oxford Road and they tried to rush the crew member to Oxford Road by taxi by they couldn't get him/her there quickly enough.

 

[driver9000]

OK but does your depot sign the Preston-Oxford Road section of the Preston-Hazel Grove service which gets extended to Buxton in the evening peak?

Yes. I can imagine that a taxi would struggle to get through Manchester at rush hour, even the relatively short distance from Piccadilly to Oxford Road.

 

[bus man]

Unfortunatley the railway industry can not win can they if the driver obeys the rules and asks for a pilot (or whatever the term is this week) then we get reporting like this , if he was to go ahead and go over the route without knowledge and some thing was to happen the press would have a field day.

Damed if they do and damed if they dont.

 

[strange6]

Yes. I can imagine that a taxi would struggle to get through Manchester at rush hour, even the relatively short distance from Piccadilly to Oxford Road.

Would be quicker walking it at that time Unless he got a 'Magic' bus which would have him there in a 2 second flash of the wand

 

[Sceptre]

OK but does your depot sign the Preston-Oxford Road section of the Preston-Hazel Grove service which gets extended to Buxton in the evening peak?

I was at Piccadilly when the train was announced as delayed by 5 minutes, delayed by 7 minutes, 9 minutes, 12 minutes then cancelled (or something like that.) There were also announcements asking for a Northern crew member called xxx to urgently make themselves known. After posting this previously a Northern member of staff explained about the train being terminated at Oxford Road because of a missing crew member who was at Piccadilly when they should have been at Oxford Road and they tried to rush the crew member to Oxford Road by taxi by they couldn't get him/her there quickly enough.

I'm curious as to why they actually can't just walk between those two stations, as it's arguably no slower than having to sort out a taxi (especially during rush hour). I've walked it in less than five minutes before.