Train Diesel Fill-ups

[strange6]

Don't know how big the fuel tanks are on trains, but how much would it be to fill up a typical 2 car DMU and how long would a full tank(s) last? Typical mpg?

Thanks all

 

[OuterDistant]

I've got a book somewhere (some years old) that makes reference to Sprinters having "large" tanks enabling them to go longer between depot visits, ISTR it was 1,000 miles or once a week.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Sprinters will easily cover 1000 in a lot less than a week, I believe the fuel point at Fratton is used to refuel 4 x 3 car 158s each night. When I worked for Wales and West there was a diagram that covered several hundred miles in a day:

Westbury-Brighton-Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly-Shrewsbury-Crewe


I make that about 750 miles.

 

[Eng274]

The 170 diagrams working solely on the Edinburgh - Glasgow shuttle cover about 670 miles a day over 14 trips. Not sure how big their tanks are though.

Voyagers have enough range to cover ~1200miles, so their tanks will be fairly large.

To keep it relevant to your query, a 156 diagram similarly does the edinburgh - glasgow trip covering 450 miles a day.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Currently, specs for new trains work on the basis of a tank providing three days' operation between visits to the fuelling apron. This is intended to coincide with emptying CET retention tanks and filling water tanks, so that between these visits, DMUs can simply be stabled and cleaned overnight, sometimes in a station, sometimes in carriage sidings.

In general, for three days operation, a modern DMU car will need a fuel tank of about 1500 litres to achieve this requirement.

 

[142094]

Howmany carriage sidings are supplied by fuel by rail wagons, or does it all come by road these days?

 

[DarloRich]

Actrually i have just been thinking about thias (sad or what). I get the train on the Marston Vale line everyday. The line runs form Bedford to Blethcley. It is operated by LM 150/153. I am wondering where they stable/maintain the stock and prepare, fuel, clean, empty and where the units run back to for heavey maintenance.

The same unit seems to do a full week then disapeer for a time.

 

[googolplex]

Actrually i have just been thinking about thias (sad or what). I get the train on the Marston Vale line everyday. The line runs form Bedford to Blethcley. It is operated by LM 150/153. I am wondering where they stable/maintain the stock and prepare, fuel, clean, empty and where the units run back to for heavey maintenance.

The same unit seems to do a full week then disapeer for a time.

I'm pretty sure they're stabled in the sidings at Bletchley, I'm not sure about refuelling or maintenance - are there any facilities left at Bletchley?

Also, do TOCs have to pay duty on fuel?

 

[NXEA!]

I'm pretty sure they're stabled in the sidings at Bletchley, I'm not sure about refuelling or maintenance - are there any facilities left at Bletchley?

As far as I know there's still facilities at Bletchley, I've heard no talk of the depot being closed, and as far as I'm aware they look after a couple of 350's overnight. Also, the old Silverlink 150 fleet used to be based at Bletchley, so they'll have all the facilities to maintain them and fuel them.

 

[DarloRich]

The depot looks pretty closed tbh! The shed is all closed up and is always dark. There is occasionally a 321/153 on the pad outside the shed but that is about it. I wonder if they use the carriage sidings on the other side of the fly over.

The depot access seems to be used by track machines so perhaps they fuel up there. LM must stable there becuase the first two trains in the morning are from Bletchley to Bedford (the first passes the second as it comes back form Bedford) I wonder if they run back to Tysley for maintenance and diagram swap overs

 

[googolplex]

As far as I know there's still facilities at Bletchley, I've heard no talk of the depot being closed, and as far as I'm aware they look after a couple of 350's overnight. Also, the old Silverlink 150 fleet used to be based at Bletchley, so they'll have all the facilities to maintain them and fuel them.

I'd heard it was downgraded and some units being maintained elsewhere, so wasn't sure how much it was downgraded and what was left.

 

[NXEA!]

I'd heard it was downgraded and some units being maintained elsewhere, so wasn't sure how much it was downgraded and what was left.

Yeah, nothings based there anymore, the 321's and 350's are at Northampton and the 150/153 are from Tysley, but I'm fairly sure I read that they look after the diesels and fill them up when needed until they have to be swapped. Its no longer a depot as such, but stock still stables there.

 

[Pumbaa]

As far as I know there's still facilities at Bletchley, I've heard no talk of the depot being closed, and as far as I'm aware they look after a couple of 350's overnight. Also, the old Silverlink 150 fleet used to be based at Bletchley, so they'll have all the facilities to maintain them and fuel them.

No - its closed. Stabling and such still occurs on the sidings. Kings Heath has facilities for basic maintenance on the DMUs that visit, and there is still a functional refuelling point. But thats it. Only staff left at BY are the small driver base.

 

[francisoldfield]

just to add I was once told that 170's have a consumption of about 2 miles to the gallon at best, so they would need many many gallons. Otherwise I cant add much as all our trains in my area are leccy!!

 

[westcoaster]

Units are still fuelled at the depot but that is about it, but there is stock inside the depot, a hand full of fresh air to the person who knows what it is?

 

[dk1]

Crown Point used to fuel sprinters roughly every 3 days. longest local daily diagram was 570 miles. 150s where allowed at a push to go 1700 miles between visits but Scuds had to stick to the plan following several run-outs.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

How many carriage sidings are supplied by fuel by rail wagons, or does it all come by road these days?

All the fuelling locations for DMUs are at depots, hence the need to return to a depot every three days, for maintenance, fuelling, tanking and CET emptying. All fuelling has to take place at a proper fuelling location with a "bund" to minimise the risk of contamination of the ground in the event of spillage, so tanker fuelling is, technically not allowed (although I know at least one FOC that practises it).

Here is a piece of work I had done by a well known consultant a couple of years ago. Happy to share it now, in the interests of wider knowledge. It's not definitive and only addresses some TOCs (the English ones with large concentrations of DMUs), but hopefully it will help.

A quick quiz... can anybody spot the fuelling location that has become defunct since this map was created in February 2009? - not Bletchley, that's already showing as being mothballed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

just to add I was once told that 170's have a consumption of about 2 miles to the gallon at best, so they would need many many gallons. Otherwise I cant add much as all our trains in my area are leccy!!

Is that per gallon per vehicle, or per unit (if unit, how many cars)?

 

[Ibex]

Sorry to repeat was has previously discussed but wanted to add a bit...

As a maintainence depot, Bletchley is now fully defunct. The equipment is all still operational (water tower, refuellers, stuff for emptying the bogs) but no more trains are maintained there.

The 150 / 153's on the branch stable at Bletchley and I believe there is a diagram every friday night for a swap with a fresh unit from Tyseley. The same applies to the Abbey Line 321 unit which is diagrammed on Wednesday nights to go back to Bletchley for a swap.

As for staff at Bletchley, there are no more staff in the TMD but Bletchley booking on point is still fully in action, for guards and drivers.

The train shed is now home to some DRS mk3 coaches though! Photo.

 

[Striker]

Units are still fuelled at the depot but that is about it, but there is stock inside the depot, a hand full of fresh air to the person who knows what it is?

Some DRS Mk3's?

 

[westcoaster]

James 564 I owe you some fresh air.

 

[Z12XE]

Crown Point used to fuel sprinters roughly every 3 days. longest local daily diagram was 570 miles. 150s where allowed at a push to go 1700 miles between visits but Scuds had to stick to the plan following several run-outs.

The longest now (SX) out of the different classes is:

170 3 car 822.48 miles (Norwich Cambridges) Most of these are in the 700s
170 2 car 666.48 miles (Ipswich Cambridges) three diags around this, one is a low mileage
156 487.95 (Sudbury diagram) - the rest are in the 400s or high 300s.
153 554.18 (Felixstowe diagram) The rest of the 153 diagrams are fairly low mileages now.

Asuming that the unit follows the diagrams correctly then they should see the depot every other day or so

 

[142094]

All the fuelling locations for DMUs are at depots, hence the need to return to a depot every three days, for maintenance, fuelling, tanking and CET emptying. All fuelling has to take place at a proper fuelling location with a "bund" to minimise the risk of contamination of the ground in the event of spillage, so tanker fuelling is, technically not allowed (although I know at least one FOC that practises it).

Tanker fuelling as in road tanker?

Often see some TEAs at Neville Hill with a 66 attached to it, guessing that is where they get their fuel from. Never seen anything like that at Heaton in a while.

 

[strange6]

There was talk a couple of years ago of trains being fitted with fuel-cut off mechanisms when the driver was coasting and engines would start again on throttle application. technically, I can't see this being very viable

 

[DavidBusDriver]

Class 185 unit's do this with 1 out of 3 engines during coasting periods - and even at times 2 out of 3 engines on an ECS/very lightly loaded unit, if I remember rightly from a Modern Railways article, the system must be GPS linked as I think engines restart ready for an uphill gradient which would be quite common over the Pennines I guess!

 

[starrymarkb]

AIUI ETCS would also allow for this as it includes gradient profiles for target speed calculation

 

[Thewanderer]

In Ireland the Intercity Class 22000 DMU's have a 1500 litre fuel tank, which would give them a range of 1000 miles + contingency between refuelling. Refuelling would take place about every two days depending on the diagram miles.

 

[Broken Viking]

Does anyone know roughly how much a HSTs tank holds? Given the speeds and distances those are designed to cover, I'm guessing it must lie somewhere around the 3000-5000 litre mark.

And also: What about the 370s? Any idea how much fuel those could carry?

 

[Benno]

Does anyone know roughly how much a HSTs tank holds? Given the speeds and distances those are designed to cover, I'm guessing it must lie somewhere around the 3000-5000 litre mark.

4500 litres or nearly 1000 gallons per power car

 

[dk1]

As long as we are running to time 'eco-driving' may help a tad with fuel consumption. Severe signal checks for no apparent reason & plenty of diagrammed ECS moves make a mockery of our efforts though :roll: