Train departing station without headlights lit

[brick60000]

Hi all

This evening I witnessed a train departing a station without its front headlights or marker lights lit. I won't include details for obvious reasons.

I acted in what I believe was the correct manner, and reported this to platform staff, who then reported it to station control.

The train had reversed at the station having been sent back from a station further along the line due to a line blockage having taken place requiring a reversal and a diversion.

My reason for posting is to enquire what the process would have been after control had been informed?

 

[robbeech]

They will have contacted on board staff, the lights would have been turned on accordingly and everyone would have had a nice day.

 

[muz379]

The best bet is probably for the station staff to contact the signaller who can stop the train and inform the driver so the lights can be turned on .

 

[philthetube]

you did act correctly, can you tell us what the stock was, modern stocks tend to switch the lights on automatically when the cab is opened up.

 

[TheEdge]

Station control will have contacted actual control or the signaller, (depending on local arrangements) actual control would have contact the signaller if the station didn't, signaller contacts driver on GSM-R, problem solved.

I believe its a only very modern stock that automatically changes the lights. Most things have a mimic panel in the cab but there is still stock with no indication in the cab. In daylight and on stock where the lights are controlled by nondescript switches its easy to do

 

[trainmania100]

You can also point to your head and the headlights that way the driver will know he she needs to turn them on

 

[dk1]

I have often sailed off with tail lights on the front (don't think I've ever had no illumination). Normally takes the first train in passing to either flash or inform the signaller via GSMR who then tells me to flick my switch. I think the record in manual signalling days was across the Breckland. I managed to get from Ely to Spooner Row before any signaller noticed. That's 7 boxes that didn't even look at me

 

[edwin_m]

I have often sailed off with tail lights on the front (don't think I've ever had no illumination). Normally takes the first train in passing to either flash or inform the signaller via GSMR who then tells me to flick my switch. I think the record in manual signalling days was across the Breckland. I managed to get from Ely to Spooner Row before any signaller noticed. That's 7 boxes that didn't even look at me

But hopefully you wouldn't have got so far without tail lights lit at the rear.

 

[dk1]

But hopefully you wouldn't have got so far without tail lights lit at the rear.

Probably not. Only time I see anything with no illumination is FL locos shunting at Ipswich. They scoot up & down the main line between down sidings & up yard often in total darkness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably not. Only time I see anything with no illumination is FL locos shunting at Ipswich. They scoot up & down the main line between down sidings & up yard often in total darkness.

That's surprising, I thought when you were shunting back and forth you showed both red and white markers at both ends.

 

[dk1]

That's surprising, I thought when you were shunting back and forth you showed both red and white markers at both ends.

You are supposed to but that doesn't mean it's done. Same as crew changes in the platform. Lawless place that

 

[HowardGWR]

Shrivenham anyone?

One link here.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=1244

 

[theironroad]

Hi all

This evening I witnessed a train departing a station without its front headlights or marker lights lit. I won't include details for obvious reasons.

I acted in what I believe was the correct manner, and reported this to platform staff, who then reported it to station control.

The train had reversed at the station having been sent back from a station further along the line due to a line blockage having taken place requiring a reversal and a diversion.

My reason for posting is to enquire what the process would have been after control had been informed?

What are the 'obvious reasons'?


You've reported it (unnecessarily in my opinion) to station staff who will have reported it to control and has no doubt been entered in the control log, so everyone in the TOC system will have access to the details of the train and crew.

 

[transmanche]

You've reported it (unnecessarily in my opinion) to station staff [...]

Why did the OP act 'unnecessarily' in reporting it?

Only once have I seen something similar happen. A Pacer arrived showing red lights at the front. As I was at the rear of the train, I went to the conductor and advised him - he immediately reported it to the driver (before opening the train doors) and then thanked me. Surely a train not showing the correct headlights is a safety issue - especially for any workers on the track? And safety comes first - certainly, that conductor thought so.

I would have thought reporting it (by whatever means) is the right thing to do.

 

[brick60000]

Thanks all for the replies and information.

The stock was a desiro EMU, so been around for a little while.

What are the 'obvious reasons'?


You've reported it (unnecessarily in my opinion) to station staff who will have reported it to control and has no doubt been entered in the control log, so everyone in the TOC system will have access to the details of the train and crew.

I saw the obvious reasons as me not knowing what the potential implications were for those concerned and therefore it being sensible not to divulge more information than necessary, the same as most would do for other situations

It was dark at the time. Thus it seems unlikely the driver wouldn't have noticed, but equally had he not the implications were potentially far more serious if it wasn't spotted. Had something happened as a result, I would've felt a responsibility for having not reported it when I had recognised something was wrong.

The driver had shouted across to a fellow driver at the station concerned about how frustrated he was for being turned around and that he had put the phone down on 'them' (I didn't hear who 'they' were but given he was talking about being held outside and then subsequently turned around I presume control / signaller, though I could be wrong - but nonetheless not especially professional to shout it across the two fast lines for all to hear!)

 

[theironroad]

Thanks all for the replies and information.

The stock was a desiro EMU, so been around for a little while.



I saw the obvious reasons as me not knowing what the potential implications were for those concerned and therefore it being sensible not to divulge more information than necessary, the same as most would do for other situations

It was dark at the time. Thus it seems unlikely the driver wouldn't have noticed, but equally had he not the implications were potentially far more serious if it wasn't spotted. Had something happened as a result, I would've felt a responsibility for having not reported it when I had recognised something was wrong.

The driver had shouted across to a fellow driver at the station concerned about how frustrated he was for being turned around and that he had put the phone down on 'them' (I didn't hear who 'they' were but given he was talking about being held outside and then subsequently turned around I presume control / signaller, though I could be wrong - but nonetheless not especially professional to shout it across the two fast lines for all to hear!)

Ah, now I understand.

 

[GB]

Probably not. Only time I see anything with no illumination is FL locos shunting at Ipswich. They scoot up & down the main line between down sidings & up yard often in total darkness.

...and this is where yellow fronts come in handy as I personally realised several years ago.

 

[gazr]

Got on a service out of Victoria not long ago and alighted at Battersea Park. Was taking a photo of the train, when the driver comes running along the platform. Odd, I thought. He jumps in and out of the back cab and runs back up front. Gave me enough time to take another photo! Only after looking at the photos did I spot the tail lights out in the first photo! The fact I didn't even register this at the start shocks me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You've reported it (unnecessarily in my opinion) to station staff who will have reported it to control and has no doubt been entered in the control log, so everyone in the TOC system will have access to the details of the train and crew.

There is nothing unnecessary about reporting something which has the potential to cause an accident or a misunderstanding leading to one. Not to get the staff in trouble, but to get it fixed before it does cause one.

 

[Elecman]

If the platform has signals on the platform use the signalpost phinecand tell the signaller directly, much quicker. I have used SPTs several times for such things

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

If the platform has signals on the platform use the signalpost phinecand tell the signaller directly, much quicker. I have used SPTs several times for such things

Very true though I doubt many non-staff would be too sure exactly how to go about using a SPT no matter how routine it may seem to staff.

 

[43096]

That's surprising, I thought when you were shunting back and forth you showed both red and white markers at both ends.

Though if the loco/stock has combined marker and tail lights then obviously you can’t do that - you’d get a pink light.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Thanks all for the replies and information.

The stock was a desiro EMU, so been around for a little while.

Strange. On the desiro the TMS shows incorrect lights / no lights as a red fault, meaning it has to be acted upon straight away.

At least it was sorted eventually.

 

[E_Reeves]

At Reading once, I took a photo of a 707 departing and upon reviewing my photo I realised that (it appeared that) it had no tail lights on. Still to this day I'm not sure whether they were actually out or whether it was the camera? I suspect it'd be the latter.

 

[Domh245]

At Reading once, I took a photo of a 707 departing and upon reviewing my photo I realised that (it appeared that) it had no tail lights on. Still to this day I'm not sure whether they were actually out or whether it was the camera? I suspect it'd be the latter.

Almost certainly the latter. Most modern headlights are LEDs, and so tend to flicker on and off when recorded on digital cameras, dependent on what settings are being used. This is an extreme example, but this (more relevant) example shows a slower flicker.

 

[Deepgreen]

What are the 'obvious reasons'?


You've reported it (unnecessarily in my opinion) to station staff who will have reported it to control and has no doubt been entered in the control log, so everyone in the TOC system will have access to the details of the train and crew.

I can't imagine why you think it unnecessary to report a fairly major operational oversight on the basis that it was accidental/human error. I've done so a few times and the staff were happy to pass the report on. If this was in darkness, it would be a serious issue.

 

[ComUtoR]

Operationally, there are rules and regulations clearly set out for when trains can run without headlights. This may have been one of those cases so it could easily be seen as unnecessary to report. As is usual, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Just because you see it as unsafe or necessary to report there is always those who will see it as just the norm. It could have just as easily been a fault.

 

[greatkingrat]

Operationally, there are rules and regulations clearly set out for when trains can run without headlights. This may have been one of those cases so it could easily be seen as unnecessary to report. As is usual, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Just because you see it as unsafe or necessary to report there is always those who will see it as just the norm. It could have just as easily been a fault.

So by that logic, no-one should ever report anything? If you report it and the signaller says thanks, I am already aware of that, then no harm has been done. Better that then a succession of people ignoring something because they think someone else might have already reported it.

 

[ComUtoR]

So by that logic, no-one should ever report anything? If you report it and the signaller says thanks, I am already aware of that, then no harm has been done. Better that then a succession of people ignoring something because they think someone else might have already reported it.

I have presented no 'logic' either way. However, I can clearly understand why someone feel it unnecessary and others think it's the most major of incidents. No more, no less.

Operationally, I can see why and how a train can run without lights. In general, I wouldn't give it a second thought. If you want to report it then do so, if you don't then don't.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

Wasn’t it in the rule book that trains showing no lights or the wrong colour should be reported ?