Train deliveries by Channel Tunnel?

[tfw756rider]

I saw an implication in the 2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro London) thread (over on Other Rail & Transport ---> London Underground) that the 24TS units built in Vienna (and partially built in Vienna, for final assembly in Goole?) are delivered from mainland Europe to England, GB, UK by Channel Tunnel.

So this is a thing? More generally, have any other trains been delivered this way? Any heavy rail / National Rail trains?

​

 

[zwk500]

I saw an implication in the 2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro London) thread (over on Other Rail & Transport ---> London Underground) that the 24TS units built in Vienna (and partially built in Vienna, for final assembly in Goole?) are delivered from mainland Europe to England, GB, UK by Channel Tunnel.

So this is a thing? More generally, have any other trains been delivered this way? Any heavy rail / National Rail trains?

​

Merseyrail 777s and Tyne and Wear Class 555s, both built by Stadler in Switzerland have been delivered by the Channel Tunnel recently. Not sure if any of the TfW or GA FLIRTs from Stadler were delivered by rail.

Also I think some individual heavy rail stock has been transited through the tunnel to or from testing at Wildenrath or Velim test tracks (in Germany and Czechia respectively). Others will probably have far more detail than me. You may find some old threads following previous deliveries.

 

[DBS92042]

Merseyrail 777s and Tyne and Wear Class 555s, both built by Stadler in Switzerland have been delivered by the Channel Tunnel recently. Not sure if any of the TfW or GA FLIRTs from Stadler were delivered by rail.

Also I think some individual heavy rail stock has been transited through the tunnel to or from testing at Wildenrath or Velim test tracks (in Germany and Czechia respectively). Others will probably have far more detail than me. You may find some old threads following previous deliveries.

The TfW 231/756s were, I can't remember back to the GA units

 

[fgwrich]

Additional Pendolino’s and Pendolino coaches. All Desiro units too.

 

[tfw756rider]

Merseyrail 777s and Tyne and Wear Class 555s, both built by Stadler in Switzerland have been delivered by the Channel Tunnel recently. Not sure if any of the TfW or GA FLIRTs from Stadler were delivered by rail.

Also I think some individual heavy rail stock has been transited through the tunnel to or from testing at Wildenrath or Velim test tracks (in Germany and Czechia respectively). Others will probably have far more detail than me. You may find some old threads following previous deliveries.

The TfW 231/756s were, I can't remember back to the GA units

Additional Pendolino’s and Pendolino coaches. All Desiro units too.

Wow, thanks a lot all!

I should've known that the 756s were, right? Oh well, I do now!

So, at least the following have been delivered through the tunnel:

• Stadler 231s, 555s, 756s and 777s* from Switzerland
• Alstom later 390 units and vehicles from Italy
• Siemens 185s, 350s, 360s, 380s, 444s and 450s and 24TS from Austria and/or Germany

@fgwrich, does all Desiro units also include the Desiro City units (700s, 707s and 717s)?

*I understand that with the 777s, only 26 of the 53 (777002/004/006/008/010/012/014/016/018/020/022/024/026/028/030/032/034/036/038 and 777140/142/144/146/148/150/152) were built in Switzerland, whereas the other 27 (777001/003/005/007/009/011/013/015/017/019/021/023/025/027/029/031/033/035/037/039/041/043/045/047/049/051/053) were built in Poland. How were the ones built in Poland delivered?

=======================================================

So what would the reason be for trains to not be delivered through the tunnel?

I'm not very familiar with which countries in mainland Europe are connected to each other by rail and which aren't - I'm guessing that trains from Spain can't be delivered through the tunnel, as the CAF Civity units that were built entirely in Spain (many of the 195s that weren't later ones, all 331s except 331111, all 397s and early 196s) were shipped over as far as I'm aware?

I'm also guessing that the CAF bodyshells for the Civity units that were assembled in Wales (all 197s, later 195s, 331111 and most 196s, that weren't the early ones) were shipped over for the same reason?

What about Hitachi Italy? Were even the 802s that were fully built there shipped over, rather than delivered through the tunnel? If so, why?

 

[ExRes]

If memory serves me correctly weren't all the 700s delivered via the Tunnel?

 

[tfw756rider]

If memory serves me correctly weren't all the 700s delivered via the Tunnel?

Definitely seems like pretty much everything Siemens was, then

 

[Adrian Barr]

The Stadler units for Anglia were delivered through the tunnel (along with the TfW ones already mentioned).

745005 is seen being hauled through Ipswich by 66002 in 2019: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/48354401397/ (Photo: Keith Partlow)

66002 with 755413 + 755414 near Trowse, earlier the same year: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisboon/32696651857/ (Photo: Chris Boon)

I seem to remember 66001 and 66002 both had coupling adaptors fitted (as seen here) so they were always the ones used: https://www.flickr.com/photos/68729621@N03/32812462757/ (Photo: Ian Sharman)
These two 66s are not fitted with auto (swing head buckeye) couplers which explains why they were chosen.

These Stadler movements to Norwich (along with the TfW ones to Cardiff) started from Ripple Lane Exchange Sidings because the units had been hauled there over HS1, resulting in the unusual sight of Stadler units crossing the Medway viaduct behind a class 92: https://www.flickr.com/photos/locohunter/53370511114/ (Photo: Ian Cuthbertson)

Other tunnel movements have been more conventional, featuring coupling adaptor wagons plus other wagons for brake force.
92026 near Chislehurst with Class 380s en route to Polmadie in 2010: https://www.flickr.com/photos/locohunter/5983485971/ (Photo: Ian Cuthbertson)

Five of the Caledonian Sleeper Mk 5 coaches were delivered through the tunnel after testing at Velim: https://www.flickr.com/photos/37059-uk/27971126979/ (Photo: Ian G Hunt)
Apparently the rest were shipped from Spain into Tees Dock.

 

[MCR247]

=======================================================

So what would the reason be for trains to not be delivered through the tunnel?

I'm not very familiar with which countries in mainland Europe are connected to each other by rail and which aren't - I'm guessing that trains from Spain can't be delivered through the tunnel, as the CAF Civity units that were built entirely in Spain (many of the 195s that weren't later ones, all 331s except 331111, all 397s and early 196s) were shipped over as far as I'm aware?

I'm also guessing that the CAF bodyshells for the Civity units that were assembled in Wales (all 197s, later 195s, 331111 and most 196s, that weren't the early ones) were shipped over for the same reason?

What about Hitachi Italy? Were even the 802s that were fully built there shipped over, rather than delivered through the tunnel? If so, why?

I don’t know if this is the reason why but some of the Spanish network uses a different track gauge which might make things harder depending on where the factories were located.

I think geography will also play a factor. German/Swiss/Polish built trains make sense to deliver by rail. Probably multiple routes that can be taken by freight trains in and through Germany to get towards Belgium. Spain or Italy though? Well, you start having to go through mountain ranges and more (I imagine) limited capacity routes. If these were two landlocked countries then maybe there’d be no choice

 

[zwk500]

So what would the reason be for trains to not be delivered through the tunnel?

Cost, route acceptance, timings, availability of paths, and many more! You need loco changes at system boundaries for electrification voltage (if applicable) and signalling reasons.

I'm not very familiar with which countries in mainland Europe are connected to each other by rail and which aren't - I'm guessing that trains from Spain can't be delivered through the tunnel, as the CAF Civity units that were built entirely in Spain (many of the 195s that weren't later ones, all 331s except 331111, all 397s and early 196s) were shipped over as far as I'm aware?

Spain uses a different track gauge for it's classic network (the high-speed lines are standard gauge), so they'd have had to road-haul the vehicles to at least France anyway. At that point, it's cheaper and simpler to just drive to Valencia port and ship it to the UK. Especially for short units or individual locos.

What about Hitachi Italy? Were even the 802s that were fully built there shipped over, rather than delivered through the tunnel? If so, why?

Believe these were shipped in but could be wrong.

Big factors in the method of delivery will be:
- distance via rail compared to distance to Ports (the UK being quite small means you can choose from quite a few port options),
- the ability of the factories and ports to handle the loading and unloading of vehicles (you need big cranes to lift these things, and a lot of space to assemble a complete train),
- the costs involved - shipping is very cheap per ton/km but moving rail vehicles by road means lots of special permissions and escorts usually,
- vehicle compatibility with each network it's travelling through (primarily sized and shape as signalling would be handled by the carrier loco),
- availability of hauliers, shipping lines, or rail FOCs to accept the movements
- Importantly: the risk of damage to a vehicle in the loading or unloading process. Having jacobs bogies or fully articulated walk-through units would mean rail-hauling straight from the factory would be a much lower risk than having each individual segment on a low loader and being craned on and off a ship. I believe at least one 66 or 67 was dropped when being craned onto the quayside on delivery and either took a long time to be repaired for traffic or never actually entered service.

The decision about which method of delivery to use will be primarily a business one, and the business will be considering, cost, margin, revenue, schedule, their contractual obligations (and the risk to all of these) when making that decision.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I believe at least one 66 or 67 was dropped when being craned onto the quayside on delivery and either took a long time to be repaired for traffic or never actually entered service.

It was 70012, which was dropped back into the ship whilst being unloaded and damaged beyond repair. As it was still the property of the builders at that point (ownership usually passes when the goods arrive on the quayside) it was covered by their insurance. It was returned to the USA - presumably in a different ship! - for component recovery. The shell has since been used as a test bed.

More about it in this thread

Freightliner 70012

I came across this clip on YouTube, showing 70012 (the loco dropped during unloading at Newport). It was videoed out on test runs in the US last Friday, with a very smart paint job. I have no info' about the purpose beyond what's shown with the clip and in the comments.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[zwk500]

It was 70012, which was dropped back into the ship whilst being unloaded and damaged beyond repair. As it was still the property of the builders at that point (ownership usually passes when the goods arrive on the quayside) it was covered by their insurance. It was returned to the USA - presumably in a different ship! - for component recovery. The shell has since been used as a test bed.

More about it in this thread

Freightliner 70012

I came across this clip on YouTube, showing 70012 (the loco dropped during unloading at Newport). It was videoed out on test runs in the US last Friday, with a very smart paint job. I have no info' about the purpose beyond what's shown with the clip and in the comments.

www.railforums.co.uk

Ah thanks for the info!

 

[Adrian Barr]

does all Desiro units also include the Desiro City units (700s, 707s and 717s)?

What about Hitachi Italy? Were even the 802s that were fully built there shipped over, rather than delivered through the tunnel? If so, why?

Italy has well established freight routes to the UK - much of the former channel tunnel intermodal traffic ran to northern Italy.
I think it's just Spain that causes a problem with the different track gauge as mentioned above, with the modern high-speed lines built to standard gauge but the majority of the network being incompatible with UK stock.

Some photos of various classes (including 700 / 707 / 717 / 802) on delivery via the channel tunnel below:

Class 185: 185101 at Wembley yard after movement from Germany:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/18317144@N04/51133543881/ (Photo: WembYard)

Class 185: 67024 hauls 185110 on 6X16 Wembley - Longsight in March 2006
https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidesoutheast/33941971633/ (Photo: Anthony Kay)

Class 350: 350117 seen in Europe en route to Dollands Moor in 2005:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bahnpanorama/54726241566/ (Photo: Paul Zimmer) The caption says:

Transfer of a new Desiro UK for London Midland. The train ran on the then-operating "Wembley Train," which connected the Gremberg marshalling yard with Great Britain.
These trains were often used for the transfer of new trainsets and freight cars.

Krefield is about 40 miles from Cologne where Gremberg yard is located. I remember it was fairly common to have 4-car Desiro units like this moved within the consist of the wagonload service from Gremberg - Dollands - Wembley in the early 2000s. The photo of 92025 below appears to have regular wagonload traffic behind the 444 unit - the train has more wagons on the back than would be needed for brake force.

Class 444: 92025 hauling a SWT Class 444 in 2004:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/transrail/9534585628/ (Photo: Adam Lucas)

Class 450: Can't find any photos, but for example TOPS records that unit 450005 moved from Dollands to Wembley on a 7X60 on 20/11/03 before movement to Strawberry Hill on 7X40 24/11/03.

Class 700: 700035 hauled by 66772 from Dollands to Hornsey in 2017:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/48880199@N08/34555942026/ (Photo: scud153)

Class 700: A bit of an oddity - the first class 700 movement (Dollands to Three Bridges in July 2015) had the 12-car train split into 3, with boarded-up corridor connections: https://www.flickr.com/photos/35437908@N04/20168443055/ (Photo: Stephen Raine)

Class 707: 707016 + 707015 hauled by 56303 from Dollands to Clapham Yard in 2017:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/38380157474/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Class 717: 717005 in the middle of 6X71 Dollands - Hornsey in 2018:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/43494419301/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Class 717: 66763 with a similar class 717 drag from Dollands to Ferme Park:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/43270874750/ (Photo: Train Photos)

Class 802: GWR 802108 en route from Dollands to North Pole in 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/31884514247/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Class 802: 66756 hauls 802106 from Dollands to North Pole at Tonbridge in 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_lees_trains/39681578823/ (Photo: Steve Lee)

Class 802: TPE 802204 (with 802203) hauled from Dollands to Eastleigh by 73965 / 73963 in 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132131074@N04/46854570945/ (Photo: Aiden Measures)

Tube Stock: 2024 Piccadilly Line Stock top & tailed by 66798 / 66718 from Dollands to West Ruislip
https://www.flickr.com/photos/crashcalloway/54107904897/ (Photo: Justin Bailey)

I think the main part of the Pendolino fleet was built at Washwood Heath, but as per fgwrich (post #4) additional units and coaches came through the tunnel in 2012
https://www.alstom.com/press-releas...olino-coaches-for-the-west-coast-main-line-uk

Pendolino: 66847 hauls 390057 from Dollands to Edge Hill in 2012:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/17607865283/ (Photo: British Rail 1980s and 1990s)

Additional Pendolino coaches: 47739 hauls 6X39 Dollands - Longsight in 2012:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/23269933863/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Additional Pendolino coaches: Unusual shot of 86701 in Colas livery with 2 Pendolino coaches (Dollands - Longsight) in 2012:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/8145255945/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

Track machines being delivered through the tunnel (from Plasser and Theurer in Austria) are fairly common.
This 6Q02 movement was in June this year from Dollands to West Ealing:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/54564101295/ (Photo: Train Photos)
Note the UIC number for continental movement alongside the DR 73955 number for UK TOPS use.

I think all the 777s were delivered via the tunnel including the Polish ones in your list, for example:

777003 on 6X29 Dollands - Kirkdale at Crewe in Jan 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/49389026552/ (Photo: Mike McNiven)

777005 + 777009 on 6X29 Dollands - Kirkdale in July 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58806173@N08/50089251568/ (Photo: Trev 'Big T' Hurley)

777007 on 6X29 (May 2020):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/49916720861/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

 

[stadler]

When they send units from Mainland European factories to Britain by train how often does the locomotive change? Is it one locomotive all the way there? Or do these change locomotives at Coquelles or Cheriton or somewhere? Also are the barrier wagons changed as well when a locomotive change happens?

One other related question i have is if any deliveries have gone the other way through the tunnel? So a train built in the UK and delivered to Mainland Europe through the tunnel? My only guess is perhaps those Arlanda Express class X3 units for Sweden years ago? Unless any manufacturers in the UK build freight wagons for Mainland European countries?

 

[RichardAsh1981]

I remember it was fairly common to have 4-car Desiro units like this moved within the consist of the wagonload service from Gremberg - Dollands - Wembley in the early 2000s.

In Summer 2000 I was on tour in Germany along the Rhine and saw (maybe even photographed, on analogue) a Network Rail MPV being delivered in the middle of a freight train.

 

[fgwrich]

Italy has well established freight routes to the UK - much of the former channel tunnel intermodal traffic ran to northern Italy.
I think it's just Spain that causes a problem with the different track gauge as mentioned above, with the modern high-speed lines built to standard gauge but the majority of the network being incompatible with UK stock.

Some photos of various classes (including 700 / 707 / 717 / 802) on delivery via the channel tunnel below:

Class 185: 185101 at Wembley yard after movement from Germany:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/18317144@N04/51133543881/ (Photo: WembYard)

Class 185: 67024 hauls 185110 on 6X16 Wembley - Longsight in March 2006
https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidesoutheast/33941971633/ (Photo: Anthony Kay)

Class 350: 350117 seen in Europe en route to Dollands Moor in 2005:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bahnpanorama/54726241566/ (Photo: Paul Zimmer) The caption says:

Krefield is about 40 miles from Cologne where Gremberg yard is located. I remember it was fairly common to have 4-car Desiro units like this moved within the consist of the wagonload service from Gremberg - Dollands - Wembley in the early 2000s. The photo of 92025 below appears to have regular wagonload traffic behind the 444 unit - the train has more wagons on the back than would be needed for brake force.

Class 444: 92025 hauling a SWT Class 444 in 2004:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/transrail/9534585628/ (Photo: Adam Lucas)

Class 450: Can't find any photos, but for example TOPS records that unit 450005 moved from Dollands to Wembley on a 7X60 on 20/11/03 before movement to Strawberry Hill on 7X40 24/11/03.

Class 700: 700035 hauled by 66772 from Dollands to Hornsey in 2017:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/48880199@N08/34555942026/ (Photo: scud153)

Class 700: A bit of an oddity - the first class 700 movement (Dollands to Three Bridges in July 2015) had the 12-car train split into 3, with boarded-up corridor connections: https://www.flickr.com/photos/35437908@N04/20168443055/ (Photo: Stephen Raine)

Class 707: 707016 + 707015 hauled by 56303 from Dollands to Clapham Yard in 2017:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/38380157474/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Class 717: 717005 in the middle of 6X71 Dollands - Hornsey in 2018:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/43494419301/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Class 717: 66763 with a similar class 717 drag from Dollands to Ferme Park:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/43270874750/ (Photo: Train Photos)

Class 802: GWR 802108 en route from Dollands to North Pole in 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/31884514247/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Class 802: 66756 hauls 802106 from Dollands to North Pole at Tonbridge in 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_lees_trains/39681578823/ (Photo: Steve Lee)

Class 802: TPE 802204 (with 802203) hauled from Dollands to Eastleigh by 73965 / 73963 in 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132131074@N04/46854570945/ (Photo: Aiden Measures)

Tube Stock: 2024 Piccadilly Line Stock top & tailed by 66798 / 66718 from Dollands to West Ruislip
https://www.flickr.com/photos/crashcalloway/54107904897/ (Photo: Justin Bailey)

I think the main part of the Pendolino fleet was built at Washwood Heath, but as per fgwrich (post #4) additional units and coaches came through the tunnel in 2012
https://www.alstom.com/press-releas...olino-coaches-for-the-west-coast-main-line-uk

Pendolino: 66847 hauls 390057 from Dollands to Edge Hill in 2012:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/17607865283/ (Photo: British Rail 1980s and 1990s)

Additional Pendolino coaches: 47739 hauls 6X39 Dollands - Longsight in 2012:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/23269933863/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

Additional Pendolino coaches: Unusual shot of 86701 in Colas livery with 2 Pendolino coaches (Dollands - Longsight) in 2012:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/8145255945/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

Track machines being delivered through the tunnel (from Plasser and Theurer in Austria) are fairly common.
This 6Q02 movement was in June this year from Dollands to West Ealing:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/54564101295/ (Photo: Train Photos)
Note the UIC number for continental movement alongside the DR 73955 number for UK TOPS use.

I think all the 777s were delivered via the tunnel including the Polish ones in your list, for example:

777003 on 6X29 Dollands - Kirkdale at Crewe in Jan 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/49389026552/ (Photo: Mike McNiven)

777005 + 777009 on 6X29 Dollands - Kirkdale in July 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58806173@N08/50089251568/ (Photo: Trev 'Big T' Hurley)

777007 on 6X29 (May 2020):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/49916720861/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

Of course, I forgot that the Hitachi Rail Europe 80Xs were bought through the tunnel too (still doesn’t make up for their build quality but that’s a different story)…

The 450s certainly did come through the channel tunnel too - I can’t remember which unit it was off the top of my head but one made it as far as a yard in France before derailing and finding itself involved in an accident. That necessitated it returning back to Krefeld for repairs.

There’s also a cracking photo of a 185 out on test somewhere in a German valley too, either in plain blue or the rarer lesser seen Barbie livery.

 

[norbitonflyer]

When they send units from Mainland European factories to Britain by train how often does the locomotive change? Is it one locomotive all the way there? Or do these change locomotives at Coquelles or Cheriton or somewhere? Also are the barrier wagons changed as well when a locomotive change happens?

One other related question i have is if any deliveries have gone the other way through the tunnel? So a train built in the UK and delivered to Mainland Europe through the tunnel? My only guess is perhaps those Arlanda Express class X3 units for Sweden years ago? Unless any manufacturers in the UK build freight wagons for Mainland European countries?

I suspect that very few trains built for use in mainland Europe would fit the UK loading gauge, so they would be unlikely to be able to get from wherever they were built to the Tunnel. (The Arlanda Express units were built at Washwood Heath in the late 1990s, before HS1 had been built).

I read that Class 92s are the only electric locomtives cleared to use the tunnel other than the shuttle locomotives, but they cannot roam very far on the Continent because most countries in western Europe do not use 25kV ac - only the UK, northern France and Portugal, (plus some dedicated high speed passenger routes.

In Germany, Austria and Switzerland the standard is 15kV ac, and most of the rest of western Europe is DC. Consequently, the Class 92s typically take over at Coquelles.

15 kV AC railway electrification - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[zwk500]

When they send units from Mainland European factories to Britain by train how often does the locomotive change? Is it one locomotive all the way there? Or do these change locomotives at Coquelles or Cheriton or somewhere?

Loco changes will definitely happen at Coquelles and Dollands Moor, as 92s are the only locos used through the tunnel for this type of movement but the trains will generally be hauled on the UK network by a diesel (although it's possible a 92 could take them on via an electrified route but HS1 is pricey to run on so they're unlikely to go as far as Barking via that route).
A single loco taking a train from Switzerland to Coquelles would need ETCS signalling for Switzerland and Belgium (and possibly the Belgian 'crocodile' signalling?), PZB for Germany and KVB for France, as well as 15KV 16.7hz AC (DE/CH), 25KV 50Hz AC (FR), and 3KV DC (BE) electrification. I expect it would be quite possible for one loco to do Switzerland and Germany and one loco to do Belgium and France, but less likely for a single loco to take the train on through (could be wrong though!).

A lot will depend on what traction is available to the company (or companies) that have the contract to transport the trains.

 

[Tester]

A single loco taking a train from Switzerland to Coquelles would need ETCS signalling for Switzerland and Belgium (and possibly the Belgian 'crocodile' signalling?), PZB for Germany and KVB for France, as well as 15KV 16.7hz AC (DE/CH), 25KV 50Hz AC (FR), and 1.5KV DC (BE) electrification. I expect it would be quite possible for one loco to do Switzerland and Germany and one loco to do Belgium and France, but less likely for a single loco to take the train on through (could be wrong though!).

3kV DC (BE)

 

[zwk500]

3kV DC (BE)

Knew there'd be something!

 

[tfw756rider]

Thanks for the replies since I last posted in here I've got a lot on at the moment so I'm not responding properly at the moment.

 

[Adrian Barr]

When they send units from Mainland European factories to Britain by train how often does the locomotive change? Is it one locomotive all the way there? Or do these change locomotives at Coquelles or Cheriton or somewhere? Also are the barrier wagons changed as well when a locomotive change happens?

Interesting topic... I've been looking into the Railadventure Class 777 movements to try and figure it out.

The haulage arrangements are no doubt influenced by the different electrification / signalling systems as per posts #17 and #18.

Railadventure have a varied fleet as a result, with most of the classes listed here alongside example photos: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:RailAdventure
There's also a stock list here: https://german87ac.com/railadventure-fleet-register/

My knowledge of European routes and loco types is limited, but this appears to be the general arrangement that was used for the Class 777 deliveries (with the 555 deliveries from Switzerland being similar).

The use of locos in Europe is fairly economical, with a single loco taking the units from either Poland or Switzerland to the German / French border at Saarbrucken / Stiring-Wendel, then another loco taking the units across France to Calais Frethun. The channel tunnel and UK side ends up being more convoluted, with 92s the only loco they can use through the tunnel, but the DB 92s no longer able to use the third rail system through Kent. 43s were also not allowed on the route to Dollands Moor (at least at the time the 777s were on delivery, not sure if that restriction still applies) requiring 66 haulage to Wembley before the changeover to Railadventure's own class 43s. The 555 unit moves to Pelaw are of course now using class 20 haulage throughout from Dollands Moor...

For the 777 deliveries, I think the route from Poland (the Siedlce factory is east of Warsaw) was very roughly via Wroclaw - Gorlitz (German border) - Dresden - Leipzig, then avoiding Belgium by heading to the French border near Saarbrucken.

From the Swiss Stadler factory at St. Margrethen, the Railadventure movements appear to head west towards Basel, crossing into Germany and following the Rhine towards Karlsruhe / Mannheim and then Saarbrucken (again, that's a very rough approximation of the route).

Loco types and route to UK:

For class 777 units built in Poland:

>Railadventure Class 183 ? (at least it looks like one in this going-away shot) from Siedlce (Poland - Stadler factory) to Saarbrucken (Germany, near French border)
Unit 777007 is hauled by what appears to be a graffitied Railadventure class 183, as train 43428 from Siedlce to Saarbrucken on 16/05/20
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147893510@N05/49937520802/ (Photo: Torsten Liermann)

For class 777 (and 555) units built in Switzerland:

>Railadventure Class 111 (or Class 620) from St. Margrethen (Switzerland - Stadler factory) to Saarbrucken
D-RADVE 111210-1 hauls a class 777 towards Saarbrucken through Kaiserslautern, Germany (08/05/20)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43432994@N03/49873261026/ (Photo: Roland Martini)

Then from Saarbrucken:

>Railadventure DE 18 diesel from Saarbrucken to Calais Frethun
4185 011-1 F RADVE with Swiss-built 777004 running as 40480 Saarbrucken - Calais Frethun (12/05/20)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/186724478@N05/49890675857/ (Photo: Railbox22390)

>DB Class 92 from Calais Frethun to Dollands Moor through the channel tunnel

>DB Class 66 from Dollands Moor to Wembley
66172 hauls 777019 / 777023 / 777031 built in Poland on 6Q14 Dollands - Wembley 30/08/23
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136510631@N08/53153494538/ (Photo: Brian Creasey)

>Railadventure Class 43s from Wembley to Warrington:
43465 + 43484 with 777019 / 777023 / 777031 built in Poland on 6Q77 Wembley yard - Warrington Walton Old Jn MSC sidings on 30/08/23.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139404814@N05/53155240834/ (Photo: Brian Carter)

>Movements to Kirkdale depot have involved class 20s, 43s, 56s, 66s... with units also moving to and from Crewe for modifications e.t.c.
43468 + 43480 deliver 777150 + 777152 as 6Q77 Walton MSC Sdgs - Kirkdale 01/10/23
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45021513@N08/53227030205/ (Photo: Alan Hart)

So the current situation for the 555 deliveries appears to use 2 locos within continental Europe, a 92 through the tunnel, then the 20s to Pelaw (so 5 locos involved in total, with loco changes at Saarbrucken, Calais Frethun and Dollands Moor).

Also are the barrier wagons changed as well when a locomotive change happens?

In the case of Railadventure, the coupling adaptor wagons (the Habfis IWA vans) will normally stay coupled to the unit until final delivery. The flat wagons with weights (Sfps / IGB) used for brake force might get slightly rearranged depending on requirements (for example if a consist with 2 or 3 units is split) but they also do the full journey through Europe and into the UK, being internationally registered and passed for UK / tunnel use.

I remember some of the Desiro movements from Germany used to employ FIA intermodal flats, which must have had a coupling adaptor at one end, and usually conveyed loaded containers with ballast weights to increase the brake force. Those used to stay with the unit until delivery, then the 2 wagons would be coupled together to go back to Germany to collect another unit. They were often fairly distinctive and can be seen in some of the photos linked in my previous post.

====================

A couple of rather nice scenic images of Railadventure class 620 locos on Stadler unit moves:

Near Keiserstuhl (Germany) in April 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187346654@N08/49827201448/ (Photo: Stefan Schulthess). Appears to be a small 2-axle flat wagon on the back; not one that would come through the tunnel.

Near Schwaderloch (Switzerland), also in April 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187346654@N08/49827201528/ (Photo: Stefan Schulthess)

==============

Finally, an example of a recent Railadventure Stadler 555 move through France with a DE18 loco. I love the way google translate phrases the caption - it's not just a train, it's a friendly convoy!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/192430235@N04/54552540996/ (Photo: Raphael S.)

It was under abominable weather, combining strong winds and non-stop rain, that the long-awaited train arrived at Coulogne for Calais-Fréthun.
A RailAdventure DE 18 was pulling a friendly convoy consisting of two Millet Rail DE 18s and two lovely new Stadler metro trains for Newcastle. Specifically, Stadler British Rail Class 555s (555 035 and 016). 27/05/25

 

[43096]

The use of locos in Europe is fairly economical, with a single loco taking the units from either Poland or Switzerland to the German / French border at Saarbrucken / Stiring-Wendel, then another loco taking the units across France to Calais Frethun. The channel tunnel and UK side ends up being more convoluted, with 92s the only loco they can use through the tunnel, but the DB 92s no longer able to use the third rail system through Kent. 43s were also not allowed on the route to Dollands Moor (at least at the time the 777s were on delivery, not sure if that restriction still applies) requiring 66 haulage to Wembley before the changeover to Railadventure's own class 43s. The 555 unit moves to Pelaw are of course now using class 20 haulage throughout from Dollands Moor...

Class 43s are now cleared to Dollands Moor - the first visit was back on 9 May.

The use of the Class 20s is because the RailAdventure Class 43 fleet is stretched currently with 43423/467 on a contract to Lumo for several weeks (route learning Edinburgh-Glasgow) and 43465/480 being out of service for ETCS fitment at UKRL in Loughborough.

I remember some of the Desiro movements from Germany used to employ FIA intermodal flats, which must have had a coupling adaptor at one end, and usually conveyed loaded containers with ballast weights to increase the brake force. Those used to stay with the unit until delivery, then the 2 wagons would be coupled together to go back to Germany to collect another unit. They were often fairly distinctive and can be seen in some of the photos linked in my previous post.

The photo below looks to be one of those moves, with containers on the flat wagons and vans acting as brake force runners. Also notable (now, at least) for the use of a DB Cargo Class 92 on third rail. Date was 4 July 2011, with 92041 hauling 7X80 1316 Dollands Moor to Polmadie Class 380 delivery run through Kensington Olympia.

 

[tfw756rider]

Thanks both

 

[TRAX]

Some Derby-built trains have even gone to the Mainland for testing, most recently at least one 710.

 

[tfw756rider]

Some Derby-built trains have even gone to the Mainland for testing, most recently at least one 710.

Interesting!

 

[zwk500]

@Adrian Barr and @43096 thank you both for those very interesting posts!

 

[Strathclyder]

One notable exception to the above examples was the Glasgow Subway stock built by Stadler, given the track gauge differences. Road delivery was the only real option once on UK soil and I presume it was the same story on the Continent.

It was 70012, which was dropped back into the ship whilst being unloaded and damaged beyond repair. As it was still the property of the builders at that point (ownership usually passes when the goods arrive on the quayside) it was covered by their insurance. It was returned to the USA - presumably in a different ship! - for component recovery. The shell has since been used as a test bed.

More about it in this thread

Freightliner 70012

I came across this clip on YouTube, showing 70012 (the loco dropped during unloading at Newport). It was videoed out on test runs in the US last Friday, with a very smart paint job. I have no info' about the purpose beyond what's shown with the clip and in the comments.

www.railforums.co.uk

GE did a good job straightening it out, but one of the cabs is still noticably drooped with a gap between it and the locomotive body clearly visible. It sees sporadic use given it's nature as a testbed loco, the latest vid on YT I can find of it dating from April this year:

 

[Adrian Barr]

Class 43s are now cleared to Dollands Moor - the first visit was back on 9 May. The use of the Class 20s is because the RailAdventure Class 43 fleet is stretched currently with 43423/467 on a contract to Lumo for several weeks (route learning Edinburgh-Glasgow) and 43465/480 being out of service for ETCS fitment at UKRL in Loughborough.

Ah, that makes sense, I remember seeing photos of 43s venturing into Kent and thought they'd been cleared, but with the 20s being used from Dollands since then I wasn't sure.

*

I found a couple of interesting videos on this topic of train deliveries via the channel tunnel:

The class 92 haulage through the channel tunnel of Stadler units is captured in this unusual video of 92015 + 92042 bringing 555003 into Dollands Moor in 2023. Note the tamper units attached to the back of the train, on delivery from Plasser to Volker Rail. This train isn't heavy enough to require a pair of 92s, but they frequently operate paired up to handle the weight of heavier trains on the gradients in the tunnel, such as the Daventry water which can be 1750 tons trailing. According to Eurotunnel, the max trailing weight for a single 92 through the tunnel is 1360, with 1800 the maximum for a pair. Maximum gradient in the tunnel is around 1 in 90.

DB Cargo 92015 + 92042 haul the First Tyne & Wear Metro Class 555 into the UK! - 22/2/23 | Channel: HSTHoward

This 2019 video surprised me - I didn't realise Railadventure were involved with the Hitachi unit deliveries from Italy. I clicked on the video to look at the loco, and from a casual glance at the title I was expecting to see a Railadventure loco hauling an ICE set in Munich, so I did a double-take at seeing a Hitachi unit in GWR colours! Without a video description I was puzzled where "IN HBF" would be, but looking at the channel description, it's run by a spotter who's home station is Ingolstadt...

The title translates as "Departure of ICE2 to Munich + BR139 Railadventure with new Hitachi through Ingolstadt station"

Ausfahrt ICE2 München HBF + BR139 Railadventure mit neuen Hitachi durch IN HBF | Channel: FireAction XXL

Apparently the Hitachi units were built in Pistoai, Italy, so it appears to be taking a route north via Bologna, Verona, Brenner Pass into Austria, Innsbruck, German border near Kufstein, Munich, Ingolstadt. In this case the Habfis coupling adaptor wagons are the same ones seen in the UK, but the brake force wagons are not passed for UK use and will be swapped at some point before the tunnel.

Here Railadventure 111 222 + 111 215 haul the Sfps brake force and Habfis adaptor wagons through spectacular scenery at Brenner in 2018:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128280393@N07/46204749271/ (Photo: Constantin Eisenschink)

I think this is a Hitachi unit for the UK seen at Brenner behind a pair of class 483s in use with DB Cargo Italia:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/giovannigrasso71/30572220658/in/photostream/ (Photo: Giovanni Grasso)
It's a lovely shot with the mountain scenery. Of the three main routes out of Italy to the north (Domodossola, Chiasso or Brenner) I think the Brenner pass is the more unusual one for UK-bound freight traffic.
Although the Traxx locos are generally multi-voltage, apparently these particular ones are a lower cost version for 3 kV DC only, meaning they wouldn't be able to work across the border. The class 111s are AC only (suitable for Austria and Germany), so I assume the locos changed here (indeed the next photo in the sequence shows the locos have been detached).

A pair of Railadventure Class 111s haul 802013 + 802014 through Trudering, near Munich:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bahnsinnig_fb/42574099324/ (Photo: Christan Bauer)
The caption says this is train 49898 from Brenner to Munich Reim

Here 111 222 + 111 210 are on a similar working from Brenner, passing through Munich in March 2019:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127291109@N08/46833637224/ (Photo: Tobi Unsin)

This May 2018 photo shows 193 558 with a GWR Hitachi unit heading west from Ingolstadt:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127291109@N08/42329673674/ (Photo: Tobi Unsin)

This 2020 photo shows a Hull Trains 802 being hauled by 139 558 through Nassachmühle (East of Stuttgart) which makes me think it's heading from Munich to Saarbrucken, to cross the German / French border in the same location as the Stadler 777 and 555 deliveries:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100737370@N02/49387969956/ (Photo: Christoph Schneider)

That theory matches up with another 2020 photo which shows a Railadventure diesel loco in a consist including a blue Hitachi unit being hauled from Saarbrucken to Forbach (a short trip across the border from Germany into France) by an electric loco BB37017: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152684342@N06/49670442162/ (Photo: Rocco Weidner)

However, not all train deliveries from Italy took this route. This 2018 photo depicts a Lineas class 186 loco taking GWR 802023 and 802024 from Aachen to Calais Frethun with Railadventure wagons. In this case the route was through Austria / Germany / Belgium. The photo was taken at Langdorp which suggests the route from Germany to France through Belgium might have been (roughly) Aachen - Mechelen - Ghent - Kortrijk - Tourcoing, which brings it into France near Lille.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/stefang_photo/51413328026/ (Photo: SG Photography)

***

A route from Aachen through Belgium would also be common for Siemens units built at Krefeld. This 2017 photo shows a Lineas class 186 hauling South West Trains Desiros 707013 and 707014 through Schulen (Belgium) en route from Aachen to Calais: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stefang_photo/52630821845/ (Photo: SG Photography)

This requires the Traxx loco to leave Aachen on 15 kV AC, switch to 3 kV DC on the move near the Belgian border (with the help of a neutral section), then to 25 kV AC in France. The caption mentions that the units were tested at Wildenrath before movement to the UK. The Wildenrath test track is conveniently located, involving a short detour off the route between Krefeld and Aachen. Also mentioned in the caption is that the 707 units sometimes ran via Saarbrucken. I think this was probably the routing used if Railadventure were hauling the units. Saarbrucken seems to be a feature of Railadventure stock movements to the UK - in this case it would be a long way round, going out of the way to avoid Belgium. In this photo the coupling adaptor wagons are from Railadventure and suitable for UK use, but the container wagons used for brake force are not UK compatible.

 

[HMTrains]

Does anyone know when the next delivery through the tunnel is?