Train crew shifts

[luke1420]

hey guys,

Am i correct in saying that a driver can not drive for more the 4h 30min without a break? Or can they work longer/shorter without a break?

Also dose the same apply to conductors can they only work for 4h 30min without a break?

Thanks.

 

[redbutton]

I believe it depends on the Conditions of Service agreed between the employee's union and company, which often takes into account the type of train being crewed (metro, suburban, or mainline).

 

[455driver]

I work a lot more than 4.5 hours in the chair!

 

[Twoonthebuzzer]

At FGW it's no more than 5hr45mins without a break.

 

[TOCDriver]

hey guys,

Am i correct in saying that a driver can not drive for more the 4h 30min without a break? Or can they work longer/shorter without a break?

Also dose the same apply to conductors can they only work for 4h 30min without a break?

Thanks.

No limits apart from the mandatory break between working shifts. Longest route I work none stop is circa 1hr 40 mins Southport to Stockport with a 15 minute turnaround. Some Cumbrian drivers work Carlisle to Barrow none stop at 2.5 hours and the Skipton chaps can work Leeds to Lancaster and back to Skipton at 3.5 hours none stop

 

[driver9000]

No limits apart from the mandatory break between working shifts. Longest route I work none stop is circa 1hr 40 mins Southport to Stockport with a 15 minute turnaround. Some Cumbrian drivers work Carlisle to Barrow none stop at 2.5 hours and the Skipton chaps can work Leeds to Lancaster and back to Skipton at 3.5 hours none stop

There are limits set out in your T&Cs. For me it's 5 hours and the longest spell of duty is currently 4hr30. It varies TOC to TOC and even within the same TOC depending on suburban and long distance work.

 

[A-driver]

It's all dependant on type of work (intercity or suburban etc). As suburban is more intense you can do less time in the chair.

Most suburban companies are around 5hours max. Whilst it is agreed via unions it is actually a legal limit and if you have an operating incident and have been driving for 5hours 10 mins without a break you may find yourself in hot water-the same as if a lorry driver is caught by the police exceeding driving hours. By time in the chair, it generally means any time without an official diagrammed CEB or PNB so turn around times count aswell along with preps, mobilisations, attachments etc. - so a 1hour 40 min journey wouldn't count as 1hour 40 in the chair-if you have 5 mins to mobilise the train, 1hour 40 driving, 15 min turnaround, 1hour 40 back, attach the units (usually given about 5mins for that), 10 min turn around then 15 mins empty stock run to a yard and then say 1 min to immobilise the unit then you have done 4hours 11 in the chair.

As for breaks they are either 1 uninterrupted 30min break or 2 x 20 min breaks. Generally there are rules about when these are taken to avoid them being tagged in the start or end thus defeating the purpose. Generally they can't be started within the first 2.5 hours and must be completed by the 7th hour. Again, breaks are a legal requirement and shouldn't be worked through.

 

[Monty]

I work a lot more than 4.5 hours in the chair!

Ha! We have jobs where you do nearly 7 hours before we get our PNB and even then it's at the end of our shift!

 

[Beveridges]

4 hours "in the chair" of a 142 has a very different meaning to 4 hours in the chair of another type of train!

 

[rich200tdi]

We are generally limited to 12 hours straight on the ground - an hour or two more can be enforced in an emergency.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Drivers in our TOC it's minimum 5 hour rostered shift and maximum 10 hours.

Maximum continuous non-stop driving is 3.5 hours.

Maximum driving with stops is 4.5 hours.

A PNB (Physical Needs Break) is where possible 30 minutes or if not 2 x 20 minutes depending on diagram, away from cab environment.

One PNB within 2 hours either side of mid-point of diagram.

Like others say all TOCs are different.

No way PNBs should be rostered at the end of diagrams, in my view anyway.

Train Managers are a different kettle of fish as they are deemed able to have there PNBs on train.



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4 hours "in the chair" of a 142 has a very different meaning to 4 hours in the chair of another type of train!

Not arf!

4 hours at a maximum speed of 75 mph (if your lucky) and maximum stopping pattern or a maximum speed of 125 mph with minimal stops.

Both ways have there good and bad points.

 

[TDK]

Ha! We have jobs where you do nearly 7 hours before we get our PNB and even then it's at the end of our shift!

I think the OP was on about continuous driving incorporated into that 7 hours do you get a cab break for more than 10 minutes? If so it is not continuous driving.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's all dependant on type of work (intercity or suburban etc). As suburban is more intense you can do less time in the chair.

Most suburban companies are around 5hours max. Whilst it is agreed via unions it is actually a legal limit and if you have an operating incident and have been driving for 5hours 10 mins without a break you may find yourself in hot water-the same as if a lorry driver is caught by the police exceeding driving hours. By time in the chair, it generally means any time without an official diagrammed CEB or PNB so turn around times count aswell along with preps, mobilisations, attachments etc. - so a 1hour 40 min journey wouldn't count as 1hour 40 in the chair-if you have 5 mins to mobilise the train, 1hour 40 driving, 15 min turnaround, 1hour 40 back, attach the units (usually given about 5mins for that), 10 min turn around then 15 mins empty stock run to a yard and then say 1 min to immobilise the unit then you have done 4hours 11 in the chair.

As for breaks they are either 1 uninterrupted 30min break or 2 x 20 min breaks. Generally there are rules about when these are taken to avoid them being tagged in the start or end thus defeating the purpose. Generally they can't be started within the first 2.5 hours and must be completed by the 7th hour. Again, breaks are a legal requirement and shouldn't be worked through.

Can you supply a link for this as this is new news to me.

 

[A-driver]

I think the OP was on about continuous driving incorporated into that 7 hours do you get a cab break for more than 10 minutes? If so it is not continuous driving.
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Can you supply a link for this as this is new news to me.

A link to what? What part of that is news to you? Are you not given PNBs at your toc?

As for 10 min turn arounds, that is company specific. Some TOCs count 10min turnaround as interrupting continuous driving. At FCC they count is as continuos driving unless you are diagrammed a CEB or PNB. So a 25mim turnaround at Cambridge still counts towards your 5 hours. But saying that we have plenty of 4hr50+ in the chair with only 5-6 min turnarounds.

 

[Latecomer]

A link to what? What part of that is news to you? Are you not given PNBs at your toc?

I'm guessing the bit that was highlighted in bold. Our version of the blue book states that we can do up to 5hrs 30 mins without a pnb for turns over 8 hrs 30. In practice that doesn't happen but we can be in the chair (excluding relatively short turn around times) for about 4 hrs 15.

As far as I was aware, if you encounter disruption and are stuck at the end of your turn (which in theory could be up to 5 hrs 30 but could certainly be at 4 hrs 15 in our case) then you can still work the train back to a place where you may be relieved. That could certainly put you over the 5 hrs 10 mins you mention. Of course a driver could declare themselves unfit to drive the train, but I am interested to know about the legal bit you mention that it would appear could render you liable to prosecution? I know the rules are there for good reason reason (Hidden, etc) but I understood there to be exceptions for out of course situations provided all reasonable steps are taken to ensure the driver is relieved at the first reasonable opportunity?

 

[455driver]

Whilst it is agreed via unions it is actually a legal limit and if you have an operating incident and have been driving for 5hours 10 mins without a break you may find yourself in hot water

We have a shift where we sign on at 1011, depart at 1028 and get our PNB at 1630 to 1730 before doing another hour in the chair before finishing.

Please note the times have been changed but the relative times are the same.

 

[A-driver]

We have a shift where we sign on at 1011, depart at 1028 and get our PNB at 1630 to 1730 before doing another hour in the chair before finishing.

Please note the times have been changed but the relative times are the same.

But what are the turnaround times like? Are we talking. 6 hours with 5 min turnarounds?

 

[A-driver]

I'm guessing the bit that was highlighted in bold. Our version of the blue book states that we can do up to 5hrs 30 mins without a pnb for turns over 8 hrs 30. In practice that doesn't happen but we can be in the chair (excluding relatively short turn around times) for about 4 hrs 15.

I am on the taptalk iPhone app and bold dosnt come out on this so still no idea what he was talking about!

Emergencies are different and obviously you can't strand a train on a running line but you are in your rights to refuse to start a journey if it will take you over hours and can take it as far as a stabling point (ie a multiple platform station or siding or insist you are diverted etc if you reach your hours.

 

[455driver]

But what are the turnaround times like? Are we talking. 6 hours with 5 min turnarounds?

I will have a look when I get to work this afternoon, I think there is one long bit between trains but most of the turn arounds are less than 5 minutes.