Train change on a through service

[miklcct]

The 1F91 service departing 19:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour was run using 166 220, however, all passengers and the crew detrained at Bristol Temple Meads platform 15 and transferred to 158 956 at platform 13 which completed the remaining of the journey.

Is a change of train on a through service a normal operation?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The 1F91 service departing 19:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour was run using 166 220, however, all passengers and the crew detrained at Bristol Temple Meads platform 15 and transferred to 158 956 at platform 13 which completed the remaining of the journey.

Is a change of train on a through service a normal operation?

No but it can happen for a number of operational reasons and at Bristol is usually well managed like in this occasion cross platform.

 

[43055]

The 1F91 service departing 19:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour was run using 166 220, however, all passengers and the crew detrained at Bristol Temple Meads platform 15 and transferred to 158 956 at platform 13 which completed the remaining of the journey.

Is a change of train on a through service a normal operation?

Not a normal operation but I find it happens for maintenance. Both EMR and Cross Country have done these sort of swaps at Derby.

 

[High Dyke]

The Mem advises that EMR's set swaps, that involve her train, usually mean a long hike between platforms at Nottingham.

 

[Dai Corner]

'Set swaps' mid journey are not unknown, as others have said.

What is unusual I think is arriving at platform 15 from the Cardiff direction. 'Micro gricers' would have been pleased to have been on the train and 'covered' some 'rare track'

 

[30907]

TPE did this to me at Oxford Road once, and it was very straightforward.
DB do (did?) this fairly regularly on the Frankfurt-Brussels route at Düren by reversing two trains (one of which is not equipped for the Belgian HS line) and swapping passengers between them. Tolerable unless one is reverse-formed!

 

[voyagerdude220]

As others have already said- “Set swaps" happen pretty much every day up and down the network-

I think the most common causes are train faults/low on fuel/even occasionally train crew traction knowledge/or the train company requiring that specific train to finish it's day at a particular depot etc.

 

[Gloster]

I have done it on a London-bound Eurostar at Ashford. The Europe-bound train had already arrived and its passengers had been marshalled on the island platform so that there were clear pathways for the London-bound ones to use to cross to the waiting set. We disembarked on arrival and then the Europe-bound passengers boarded the train we had left and it headed back eastwards.

The one thing that they got wrong was that they insisted on London-bound passengers boarding the coach with the correct number. However, this added quite a bit to the delay as the train was unevenly loaded: hardly anyone in some coaches and packed out in others. There were still queues outside two or three doors for around ten minutes after all the others had finished loading.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not a usual thing but it does happen.

One common example is where a non-ETCS fitted unit, e.g. a 150 or 175, has ended up arriving at Shrewsbury on an Aberystwyth/Pwllheli service. If this happens, the set is swapped with the one coming in from that side. The timetable has them both arrive and depart Shrewsbury at similar times so this isn't a great issue other than being unpopular with passengers.

 

[Horizon22]

Bristol TM is normally the place you will see 'mid journey set swaps' travelling on GWR due to many of the workings through the station being quite long end-to-end and St. Phillips' Marsh being around the corner. It normally works quite well with a cross-platform interchange and usually occurs because one set needs to go out of service fairly sharpish. It's not a daily occurence at Bristol, but nor is it extremely rare.

The vast majority of set swaps are done at terminals / with terminating trains but it is not unheard of for it to happen at through stations, its just obviously more inconvenient for passengers. At a big London terminal with intercity workings, you'd be looking at 10+ regularly each day for maintenance reasons, reblancing short-formations, faults, diagram allocations, late running etc.

 

[Parallel]

This has happened to me at both Bristol Temple Meads and Machynlleth before.

At Machynlleth, we were required to alight from a 2-car 158 (ex-Aberystwyth) and a few minutes later, a 4-car 158 pulled in (ex-Pwllheli). This was around 10 years ago.

Slightly annoying as it happened on the same day and I had luggage, so a journey with three changes became a journey with five changes on that occasion.

 

[dk1]

Maintenance requirements or lack of fuel after an earlier unit swap. These things can always have an impact as can lack of crew knowledge for particular traction. All adds to the mix.

 

[Runningaround]

It's not a usual thing but it does happen.

One common example is where a non-ETCS fitted unit, e.g. a 150 or 175, has ended up arriving at Shrewsbury on an Aberystwyth/Pwllheli service. If this happens, the set is swapped with the one coming in from that side. The timetable has them both arrive and depart Shrewsbury at .similar times so this isn't a great issue other than being unpopular with passengers.

It is when its from P3 to P5. You wonder if someone had a bad day with passenger assistance requests and was looking for revenge

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is when its from P3 to P5. You wonder if someone had a bad day with passenger assistance requests and was looking for revenge

That's pretty bad, I've seen it a few times but it's always been cross-platform with one in the bay and one on the adjacent through platform.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Maybe this happens on rail journeys only when there's a one-off reason, rather than it being part of the normal timetable. But on some bus routes around the country I've noticed that a swap like this on an otherwise through journey (ie timetabled/ticketed as a through journey) is written into the timetable.

 

[Watershed]

There is no through coach for seated passengers on the Fort William portion of the Caledonian Sleeper.

Seated passengers must vacate the train at Edinburgh in either direction (at around 1am southbound and 4am northbound), wait on the platform (waiting rooms are shut at that time) until the train has been shunted to add or remove the relevant coaches, and then rejoin the train.

It's not exactly conducive to a great night's sleep - but then neither is travelling in the seats generally!

 

[The exile]

There is no through coach for seated passengers on the Fort William portion of the Caledonian Sleeper.

Seated passengers must vacate the train at Edinburgh in either direction (at around 1am southbound and 4am northbound), wait on the platform (waiting rooms are shut at that time) until the train has been shunted to add or remove the relevant coaches, and then rejoin the train.

It's not exactly conducive to a great night's sleep - but then neither is travelling in the seats generally!

And anyone making the journey would surely know what they were in for. - at least in the sense of”I can’t sleep through’

 

[Kieran1990]

On the East Coast it has been known back in the HST and 91’s on the Anglo-Scots for a 91 to take the highland Chiefden to Edinburgh and there be a set swap onto a HST.
I’ve seen the set swap happen at York and Doncaster before as well

 

[Geezertronic]

I've had to swap sets a couple of times on a LNWR Birmingham-Euston via Northampton service at Northampton. "Operational Reasons" was the reason given on both occasions.

 

[Runningaround]

That's pretty bad, I've seen it a few times but it's always been cross-platform with one in the bay and one on the adjacent through platform.

Not changing trains. But I've been on a late service expected into PL7 at the same time the last Coast train is due to leave off PL3. It seems they can be proactive(when they want) and switch the CC train to PL4 and hold it. Then doing this is far easier and cheaper than arranging taxis for twenty or more passengers to as far as Pwllheli on a Bank Holiday.
I wonder would they have held it had it not been the last train and left passengers with a two hour wait?

 

[Western 52]

I've had set swaps a number of times at Cardiff on the west Wales to Manchester services. Often one train behind the other in the same platform. On one occasion we arrived from Swansea in a crowded 3 car 175 to find a 2 car set waiting. We then had to stand most of the way to Crewe!

 

[trebor79]

'Set swaps' mid journey are not unknown, as others have said.

What is unusual I think is arriving at platform 15 from the Cardiff direction. 'Micro gricers' would have been pleased to have been on the train and 'covered' some 'rare track'

Remember being on a XC HST years ago arriving at Bristol and a bunch of gricers who happened to be on the train got terribly excited about the platform we were routed into, to the extent of shouting at each other about how rare it was etc. They got some funny looks from the rest of us!

 

[johntea]

LNER ditched a Harrogate - Kings Cross service at Leeds this evening due to an 'issue' although it was never really announced of the specifics, ran perfectly fine for the Harrogate to Leeds journey though apart from departing a couple of minutes late and no real delay to passengers going forward either as a replacement set was already waiting on Platform 9 at Leeds (where there is quite a generous wait in the timetable anyway before heading off to London)

Perhaps a fault with the bi mode as it runs diesel between Harrogate and Leeds? Would that sort of issue be able to be identifed in advance? (I would have thought if they had deemed the issue too risky they would have just run the service empty straight to Neville Hill and advised passengers to catch the 17:45 Northern to Leeds then ran a slightly delayed Kings Cross service from there instead)

 

[Magdalia]

In the days of the class 365s it was common for passengers between Kings Cross and Kings Lynn to have to change trains at Cambridge. Most down trains divided at Cambridge, and most up trains joined at Cambridge, with the unit detaching from the down train booked to join on the next up train, without leaving the platform.

Any late running or disruption would lead to implementation of "plan B", where the 8 car train arriving from Kings Cross went back to Kings Cross and the 4 car train arriving from Kings Lynn went back to Kings Lynn. If the passengers were lucky, this was done in platforms 4 and 5, but, as the booked splits and joins were mostly in platform 1, they were often treated to a long walk. But it was still less damaging for punctuality than doing the splitting and joining.

Fortunately this hardly ever happens now that 8 car trains can run through to Kings Lynn.

 

[mlambeuk]

Had it on a few Northern/ TPE services from York that went via Leeds, where they swapped the trains at Leeds.

 

[mangyiscute]

I had this at Newcastle on a Hexham to Whitby service, and as far as i was aware there was very little said since I had earphones is so could have very easily missed the train

 

[noddingdonkey]

I had one many years ago when Transpennine was part of Northern Spirit; an Express from Leeds - Manchester had ended up with a 142, which was giving the catering trolley guy something to think about. The Guard managed to get a swap with a 156 authorised and we trudged across to a through platform.

Not quite the same but more recently had a double 185 tip everyone out in Platform 8 at Huddersfield. There was a fault on the rear unit so the driver shunter the front unit into Platform 6 then we had to wait for the driver to shunt the rear unit into the sidings.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Maybe this happens on rail journeys only when there's a one-off reason, rather than it being part of the normal timetable. But on some bus routes around the country I've noticed that a swap like this on an otherwise through journey (ie timetabled/ticketed as a through journey) is written into the timetable.

That is simply to get round drivers hours rules. It's usually shown in the timetable as two separate journeys, but operated by one bus and driver and with through fares.

 

[miklcct]

That is simply to get round drivers hours rules. It's usually shown in the timetable as two separate journeys, but operated by one bus and driver and with through fares.

There are two different things here:

1. There is a bus change shown inside a journey in the timetable. These are operated by two vehicles and drivers in order to get round drivers hours rules, but through fares are sold and the second bus is guaranteed to wait at the change point in case the first bus is late.

2. The timetable entry is shown as two separate journeys but is mentioned to be connecting journeys operated by the same vehicle. Through fares are also sold. This happens when the two portions of route are registered separately as different services.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There are two different things here:

1. There is a bus change shown inside a journey in the timetable. These are operated by two vehicles and drivers in order to get round drivers hours rules, but through fares are sold and the second bus is guaranteed to wait at the change point in case the first bus is late.

2. The timetable entry is shown as two separate journeys but is mentioned to be connecting journeys operated by the same vehicle. Through fares are also sold. This happens when the two portions of route are registered separately as different services.

1. Can be done by the same bus and driver, as long as it's shown in the timetable as separate journeys. However, most companies do 2.
Sometimes, of course, a bus swap needs to physically happen, then it has to be 1. In theory you can swap the buses and the driver carries on in the new bus, but more often returns back with the same bus. As, more often than not, bus and driver are from same depot and both need to end there.