Train cancelled. Need advice

[porsche007]

Hi.
Wondering if anybody can advise.
Travelling london-edinburgh tomorrow,25th
Just found out that Train will be cancelled from Preston .
I am booked out my hotel tomorrow am.
What am I supposed to do.
If I have to stay here a night it will mean extra hotel /food .
I dont know what else to do other than stay till Sunday, can this be claimed back as I don't have money to loose on paying for extra day to then leave on Sunday(if they don't cancel that as well).
I'm disabled so this is really stressing me out, which makes my illness worse.
Any help appreciated

 

[JordR]

I'm afraid it will be difficult to make this journey and take much longer than usual, but perhaps not impossible.

It seems like you were planning to travel from London Euston up the West Coast Main Line, which passes through Preston. The usual quicker way to make this journey is up the East Coast Main Line, which passes through York, but part of it is closed for planned engineering work this weekend.

It is possible to travel on a train from London St Pancras (which is quite near Euston) to Bedford, a rail replacement bus to Peterborough and a train to Edinburgh. This is likely to be very busy and trains may be disrupted or delayed because of the recent storm.

Check your ticket to see if the route says "AP Rugby", "Avanti" or "Avanti W Coast". I suspect it will say one of these given your original journey. These tickets are not valid on the alternative route and you will have to go to the ticket office at St Pancras to explain the situation and pay the difference in fare. It may be less than staying another night in London.

Good luck!

 

[smsm1]

There are trees on the line and wires down on parts of the Scottish and Northern England tracks, with an estimate of non at the earliest for trains to start running again in public service.

One option could be to get to Preston and wait there and then if the line north doesn't reopen find a hotel there which might be cheaper than London. Unfortunately due to the severe storm it won't be until mid or late morning until we'll know which rail routes are running again.

Once we know which rail routes are running can speak to a ticket office to see if they will allow use on an alternative route.

Either way the rail companies are unlikely to give you money for additional hotel costs. You are likely cheaper travelling on the same ticket than cancelling and refunding the current ticket and getting another likely full price ticket.

Could coach be an option for part of the journey?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Preston Premier Inn is normally relatively cheap if that's any help.

 

[robbeech]

Lines are now open between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Whilst this isn’t on the route you’re planning to take, and there’s works meaning no trains from King’s Cross, there’s definitely access to Edinburgh by train.

A ticket London Terminals to Edinburgh (or whichever local station you might be going back to) are either routed any permitted or via York (ignoring the west coast options).

St Pancras to Sheffield and a Cross country service to Edinburgh might be doable if XC are running. If not a change at Sheffield and Doncaster for an LNER Doncaster to Edinburgh should work.

You’d be eligible for a full refund on your original ticket but it’s unlikely different rail operators are willing to cooperate today to help passengers out as that isn’t their focus so acceptance of your current ticket is unlikely but it’s definitely worth checking.

 

[azOOOOOma]

I just looked up flights and unfortunately with yesterday’s storm flights are full or only have their expensive tickets left for sale.

I don’t do the bus as a rule, but given the hassle factor, today would be a day where I’d give it consideration. However they’re all full unless you want an overnighter.

It sounds like you’re in an awful predicament and I hope you get to your destination.

Laura x

 

[30907]

Although slower, Avanti to Manchester then TPE and LNER via York might be worth trying.

 

[43066]

Late to this, but the suggestion above to head to Preston and stay there tonight, before continuing north tomorrow when things should be easier, seems sensible.

Preston Central Premier Inn is currently quoting £73 for a room tonight.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This is essentially an issue caused by disruption on the railway, so shouldn't the railway (i.e. any train company) be assisting the OP in getting to their destination (Edinburgh) by alternative means, and/or providing overnight accommodation; and if not, why not?

 

[LCC106]

Not sure on that one but would they claim it was an act of God / weather that is out of their control?

 

[JordR]

This is essentially an issue caused by disruption on the railway, so shouldn't the railway (i.e. any train company) be assisting the OP in getting to their destination (Edinburgh) by alternative means, and/or providing overnight accommodation; and if not, why not?

Whether they should or not, there doesn't appear to be any actual ticket acceptance agreed at the moment. Probably because all the TOCs will claim to be at or beyond capacity just handling their own customers. In this case, the King's Cross engineering work has unfortunately aligned to make the journey even more difficult.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not sure on that one but would they claim it was an act of God / weather that is out of their control?

Probably, but they are not allowed to use this as a way to escape their responsibility under the law, and the contract they made, to the customer.

 

[tumbledown]

Probably, but they are not allowed to use this as a way to escape their responsibility under the law, and the contract they made, to the customer.

Would you be OK with your employer taking that line when you failed to turn up for work due to extreme weather? Someone needs to explain the concept of Unfair Contract to you.

 

[AlterEgo]

Would you be OK with your employer taking that line when you failed to turn up for work due to extreme weather? Someone needs to explain the concept of Unfair Contract to you.

The train company is the one who has proposed the contract, the customer merely accepts it. Are you saying the train companies are proposing contracts which are unfair to themselves?

To be really clear, it’s not just the contract which says this - it’s the law.

 

[JordR]

The train company is the one who has proposed the contract, the customer merely accepts it. Are you saying the train companies are proposing contracts which are unfair to themselves?

To be really clear, it’s not just the contract which says this - it’s the law.

Which law are you relying on? If it's the implied term of reasonable care and skill under section 49 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I don't think that's likely to be interpreted as requiring a TOC to run trains in extreme weather.

The NRCoT, which is contractual, also seems less that completely helpful. Condition 28.2 contains the words "where it reasonably can" relating to onwards travel or overnight accommodation and I'm not sure that would be outright unenforceable under section 62 or otherwise, there's not a complete prohibition of force majeure in consumer contracts.

We also need to be accepting of commercial reality. If the TOCs are held to a higher standard they will simply calculate the average cost of it and add it to unregulated fares.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which law are you relying on?

Regulation 1371/2007 on Rail Passengers’ Rights and Obligations - this is law in England, Scotland and Wales.

Article 18 refers. Train companies do, in fact, have to provide alternative transport, or accommodation, when and where physically possible.

1. In the case of a delay in arrival or departure, passengers shall be kept informed of the situation and of the estimated departure time and estimated arrival time by the railway undertaking or by the station manager as soon as such information is available.
2. In the case of any delay as referred to in paragraph 1 of more than 60 minutes, passengers shall also be offered free of charge:

(a)	meals and refreshments in reasonable relation to the waiting time, if they are available on the train or in the station, or can reasonably be supplied;

(b)	hotel or other accommodation, and transport between the railway station and place of accommodation, in cases where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary or an additional stay becomes necessary, where and when physically possible;

(c)	if the train is blocked on the track, transport from the train to the railway station, to the alternative departure point or to the final destination of the service, where and when physically possible.

3. If the railway service cannot be continued anymore, railway undertakings shall organise as soon as possible alternative transport services for passengers.

As a TOC you cannot just declare an "Act of God" and have the law not apply to you here - note that these things have to be provided when and where physically possible. The cost is immaterial.

The railway must pay for the OP's hotel if they are unable to physically get the OP to Edinburgh from Preston to continue their journey (for example because of road closures - they can't just say "well a taxi is expensive"). There are hotels available for the OP - the TOC must pay.

If the TOCs are held to a higher standard they will simply calculate the average cost of it and add it to unregulated fares.

This is existing law which has been the case for some years now. There's a separate thread elsewhere where people are arguing for passengers on public transport - which ought to be democratised and accessible to all - to have fewer rights which was depressing. I don't wish to repeat the discussion here, as this is a thread giving the OP, who is disabled, help and explaining what rights they have: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-should-passengers-rights-be-during-a-forecast-storm.278177

 

[JordR]

Thanks, that's useful to see. I agree that "where physically possible" is a high bar and it'd be really difficult for a TOC to say it wasn't physically possible to find a hotel in central London.

So the situation is more that the regulations are not systematically enforced by a strong regulator and there isn't widespread public awareness? I didn't know they existed (with a probably concerning contradiction in the NRCoT) and I'm posting on a railway forum.

The commercial point is still valid as current fares probably price in the unawareness and lack of enforcement, but agree that's probably not a topic for this thread.