Train cab rides

[BestWestern]

I have seen a few reconstructions of events/accidents/whatever on railway videos on the internet and in a few the guard opens the cab door and go in to tell the driver whether they are to stop at a request stop or not - is that inaccurate, against the rules but done frequently or allowed?

It's a bit of a grey area that one. Our TOC - and I would imagine it's probably the same everywhere - now explicitly forbid entering the cab. It used to be that you would simply shout from the vestibule (cab doors on Sprinters are not soundproofed at all and the Driver can easily hear you) and simply 'reached a clear understanding' as the Rulebook requires in these situations, however since then a couple of different systems of using the buzzer have been tried. The current official way of doing things is two give the buzzer code 'Two' (same as ready to start) on the approach if nobody wants to get off. The Driver then knows that he only needs to stop if there is somebody wanting to get on. Many still go for the old fashioned shouting though! But either way, never enter the cab!

 

[TDK]

If the front is out of bounds, I see no reason why the back shouldn't be. Although back in the day my dad's friend got a rear cab of a 50 (completely opposite to Buttsy ) while it was running round, and the driver just told him not to touch anything...

The back is out of bounds to staff let alone train spotters unless the staff have a valid reason to travel in the rear or centre cab.
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My son's train broke down at Forest Gate on route to Liverpool Street
about two weeks ago.
Next train full to the rafters so he and a few others were invited into
the driver's cab. As is the norm with anyone under 30, video evidence available.

Oh right, are you absolutely sure? If found out the driver will be dismissed - nice one buddy

 

[A-driver]

Whilst its not uncommon to find people breaking into out of use 313 cabs in the peaks (often kicked out if spotted) I once had a short formed peak hour 317.

I got to one station and I was just making an announcement apologising for the short form, asking people to move down etc when I heard the cab door open. At first I thought it was another driver or DM so carried on with the announcement. Then I looked round and found 4 business men inthe cab. 1 had sat in the 2nd mans set, the other three stood inthe vestibule. I was so angry that they had just broken in that I didn't even consider letting them stay even though the train was so full. So I told them no way and asked them to leave to which they refused at first.

I just told them the train wasnt moving until they got out of the cab and vestibule and that I'd happily sit there all day. After swearing at me and calling me a jobs worth they left. Whilst I wouldn't ever let strangers in my cab I would have been a lot nicer about it and more helpful if they had asked rather than broken in. I was actually fuming for the rest of the shift that they had the audacity to do what they did!

 

[LE Greys]

I'll admit to having travelled in rear vestibules before, but only when the door was wide open on DOO units (and I closed it behind me). It's one of those things that I'm sure many people do, but know they shouldn't really.

What about using the cab for luggage? On an extremely overcrowded 2-car unit in the summer, laden with passengers going to a festival, the driver came out to say that people should give him their rucksacks and tents to make more space, which he then deposited on the platform on arrival. Popular move as it made room for almost all of those waiting to board! (I'll not mention the TOC in case it's not allowed).

Happened to me once as well.

 

[Pumbaa]

Oh right, are you absolutely sure? If found out the driver will be dismissed - nice one buddy

Oh give it a rest. If the driver chose to take that action, he'll have a reason and should be prepared for consequences if it was unorthodox.

Many (if not all?) TOC and FOC have local instructions about staff in cabs and rules vary for everyone. One thing that remains - cabs are generally out of bounds for any MoP.

 

[GodAtum]

Are the BTP allowed to travel in cabs? For example if it's very busy and they need to go somewhere.

 

[A-driver]

Are the BTP allowed to travel in cabs? For example if it's very busy and they need to go somewhere.

No, the only people allowed In rear cabs (and its not written down as allowed, just a blind eye turned to it) are drivers, guards, driver/guard managers. And only really acceptable if the train is busy (except a guard working the train obviously). It is heaven in there when passing home on a Friday/Saturday night after a late shift with a train load of drunks though!

 

[Temple Meads]

Are the BTP allowed to travel in cabs? For example if it's very busy and they need to go somewhere.

I highly doubt it, if guards are not allowed in (front) cabs (despite being as safety critical/aware as drivers), then I doubt BTP will be.

I've had a few cab tours, mainly when I was a lot younger, never had a cab ride though.

 

[D1009]

Back in 2002. My wife and two boys 2 and 10
went on the Paris Metro.The eldest was stood looking through the glass door into the drivers cab
At the next station, the driver opened the door and beckoned us in. My wife stayed in the coach but myself and eldest had over 15 minutes ride in the cab, at one point the driver left us while on a platform stop and then came back with a large ham and cheese baguette and can of coke while proceeding to consume it and drive

I'm surprised it wasn't a bottle of wine! On SNCF in steam days there was regularly a bottle of wine on the footplate for the driver and fireman, and anyone having a footplate ride was also invited to partake.

 

[BestWestern]

Whilst its not uncommon to find people breaking into out of use 313 cabs in the peaks (often kicked out if spotted) I once had a short formed peak hour 317.

I got to one station and I was just making an announcement apologising for the short form, asking people to move down etc when I heard the cab door open. At first I thought it was another driver or DM so carried on with the announcement. Then I looked round and found 4 business men inthe cab. 1 had sat in the 2nd mans set, the other three stood inthe vestibule. I was so angry that they had just broken in that I didn't even consider letting them stay even though the train was so full. So I told them no way and asked them to leave to which they refused at first.

I just told them the train wasnt moving until they got out of the cab and vestibule and that I'd happily sit there all day. After swearing at me and calling me a jobs worth they left. Whilst I wouldn't ever let strangers in my cab I would have been a lot nicer about it and more helpful if they had asked rather than broken in. I was actually fuming for the rest of the shift that they had the audacity to do what they did!

Jesus, that's shocking! I'd be putting in some serious reports suggesting something might be done about beefing up cab door locks, sounds as though you have some rather necky punters in your neck of the woods! Might have been tempted to get the BTP out for the sweary blokes I think!

 

[Southern Dvr]

My son's train broke down at Forest Gate on route to Liverpool Street
about two weeks ago.
Next train full to the rafters so he and a few others were invited into
the driver's cab. As is the norm with anyone under 30, video evidence available.

As is the norm????? That is a sackable offence.

Nobody travels in the leading cab without a valid cab pass. I've kicked out management who were not in possession of the requisite paperwork.

 

[jopsuk]

"as is the norm" in that many people, especially under 30, will whip their phone out and video anything a bit out of the ordinary.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I don't understand how cabs can be so easily "broken into", when they use BR or Carriage key locks, surely no "MoP" has such keys?

 

[MattRobinson]

How crap are the door locks then? Surely you need a T-key?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Searle]

I have seen a few reconstructions of events/accidents/whatever on railway videos on the internet and in a few the guard opens the cab door and go in to tell the driver whether they are to stop at a request stop or not - is that inaccurate, against the rules but done frequently or allowed?

A couple of years ago, when on a Pacer from Exeter - Barnstaple, to get the attention of the driver (because he had missed a request stop!), the guard knocked on the cab door, so the driver stopped the train, then opened the cab door to talk to the driver. I think he told the driver to stop at the next stop so the lad who missed his stop (presumably because he didn't tell the guard) had to cycle back a station! Unfortunately I didn't record how much of a delay it caused.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Cab rides did not use to be uncommon!
We now live in a different era, where accountants & H&S etc have now taken over!
Today it would get on youtube etc, and someone having to look for a new job.
Watch from 00.32 - 01.12 !! Driver stops to pick flowers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTCwe-oj6LA
An excellent branch line video (Bere Alston to Callington (Kelly Bray) Now terminates at Gunnislake.

 

[GodAtum]

On the way into Victoria the trains topped and a Network Rail guy jumped out of the cab onto the tracks! i can only guess he cleared it with various people.

 

[cjohnson]

Couple of years ago I was travelling on a EMT Meridian in the rear coach with a small group. The guard was showing a small boy (with his mum in attendance!) around the rear cab and letting him sound the horn as the train was going full pelt. Jealous of his fun we asked to be shown round the cab and give the horn a blast as well

 

[Mintona]

On the way into Victoria the trains topped and a Network Rail guy jumped out of the cab onto the tracks! i can only guess he cleared it with various people.

Various people at Network Rail (eg. MOMs) have cab passes in their possession as there may be a need to travel in the cab during the course of their duties. The pass must be valid and in date or there is a good chance they will be refused access.

 

[BestWestern]

How crap are the door locks then? Surely you need a T-key?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Sadly, pretty crap on older stuff. A carriage key lock is hardly infallible, and of course there are plenty in circulation that shouldn't be. It is high time that a more secure replacement was introduced, though obviously the issue of giving them out like sweeties also needs addressing

 

[bronzeonion]

I'd say the mainline are abit too strict on the front cab policies with members of railway staff, it is all a bit too formal, I dont see why a member of staff travelling to work can't sit in the front especially if the driver is a friend.

 

[cambsy]

Had various cab rides in 80's-90's. ~I have had 31 from Ely to March, rear dvt of 225 set Carstairs-Motherwell, rear cab of 158 overnight Preston-Edinburgh playing with destination blind, 47/8 Holyhead-Chester non stop relief speeding up to 99mph and blasting horn, rear dbso of 47 push pull mk 3 set Stirling-Glasgow. Not had any in recent years, very hard to do these days.

 

[Murph]

Sadly, pretty crap on older stuff. A carriage key lock is hardly infallible, and of course there are plenty in circulation that shouldn't be. It is high time that a more secure replacement was introduced, though obviously the issue of giving them out like sweeties also needs addressing

Carriage keys are nothing special, and it's nonsense to say that non railway staff should not be in possession of them. They are used for a wide variety of non-railway purposes, such as utility cupboards, bin stores, etc. I have several myself, am not railway staff, and have entirely legal and legitimate non-railway uses for them. I can think of at least 250 households which also have one or more of them (for the bin stores).

If something is "secured" only by a carriage key lock, it's not secured at all, to be frank about it, merely firmly latched in a way that is marginally less than completely trivial to unlatch.

 

[nicobobinus]

Going back nearly a decade here but it wasn't unusual at peak hours in the days of 313s on the NLL to see guards letting people into the rear cab with them when either;

1) the passenger doors had been closed and a couple of stragglers came puffing down the platform. They were generally quickly passed into the passenger area.

2) the trains were chronically and spectacularly wedged (which in Silverlink days was the norm for large parts of the day, but especially morning peak Stratford twds Camden Rd). You'd see passengers allowed to stand in the doored area immediately behind the cab, or on a few occasions inside the main driving area of the cab - more often the former though.

 

[TDK]

On the way into Victoria the trains topped and a Network Rail guy jumped out of the cab onto the tracks! i can only guess he cleared it with various people.

Of course
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd say the mainline are abit too strict on the front cab policies with members of railway staff, it is all a bit too formal, I dont see why a member of staff travelling to work can't sit in the front especially if the driver is a friend.

90% of managers these days are walking on eggshells, can see your point but there have been incidents when unauthorised personell have been in a front cab in the past
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Carriage keys are nothing special, and it's nonsense to say that non railway staff should not be in possession of them. They are used for a wide variety of non-railway purposes, such as utility cupboards, bin stores, etc. I have several myself, am not railway staff, and have entirely legal and legitimate non-railway uses for them. I can think of at least 250 households which also have one or more of them (for the bin stores).

If something is "secured" only by a carriage key lock, it's not secured at all, to be frank about it, merely firmly latched in a way that is marginally less than completely trivial to unlatch.

And what would those legal and legitimate reasons be?

 

[michael769]

On the way into Victoria the trains topped and a Network Rail guy jumped out of the cab onto the tracks! i can only guess he cleared it with various people.

. During signalling failures of engineering works on active lines a Network Rail pilotman will travel with the driver to guide him through whatever is going on. NR engineers can also travel with the driver for the purposes of carrying out an inspection of the line.

 

[A-driver]

You also have the Battersea staff halt just outside Victoria on the Brighton reversible. Is this where the network rail guy got out? There are drivers booked to travel in the front cab from
Clapham to get to this staff halt to get trains out if the pier sidings.

The rules for drivers travelling in cabs really is down to the TOCs. I know southeastern and FCC thameslink side allow passing in the front cab and actually diagram it. Other companies say its strictly not allowed. I tend to invite other drivers who I know into the front. Some managers will kick people out if they catch them but they can't really discipline us for it on FCC GN as the TL allow it and we are the same company.

 

[Wikipedia]

Carriage keys are nothing special, and it's nonsense to say that non railway staff should not be in possession of them. They are used for a wide variety of non-railway purposes, such as utility cupboards, bin stores, etc. I have several myself, am not railway staff, and have entirely legal and legitimate non-railway uses for them. I can think of at least 250 households which also have one or more of them (for the bin stores).

If something is "secured" only by a carriage key lock, it's not secured at all, to be frank about it, merely firmly latched in a way that is marginally less than completely trivial to unlatch.
And what would those legal and legitimate reasons be?

And what would those legal and legitimate reasons be?

I work at a bus company (a small one at that) and all of our buses have at least one Carriage Key style lock so a Bus T-Key could quite easily be used on the railway and visa versa!

 

[Alan1310]

I am a nurse and 99% of all our clinical waste bins and laundry stores are all carriage keys and that's what they are called they come from a company out Woburn way iirc Evan our adrenaline box in our resus bag has one these keys are not specific to the railway and I quite often have my large T key or my smaller key on
Me on the way to work


I must add that legally on
Any of our wards this lock is not classed as secure so all of these locks are in rooms that have a RFID lock on the main door

 

[notadriver]

I'd say the mainline are abit too strict on the front cab policies with members of railway staff, it is all a bit too formal, I dont see why a member of staff travelling to work can't sit in the front especially if the driver is a friend.

I think other drivers riding up front is fine. They know when to shut up. Other people keep talking and talking and talking. I'm glad the policy is strict. The person driving your train is responsible for many hundreds of people potentially traveling faster than is legally allowed on the road !