Train arrives too long for platform - fail

[craigybagel]

ATW 158's do not have SDO, unless you manually lock doors out of use you can only open the local door or all doors. The train concerned is only booked for 4 cars so that may explain the issues at new street today.

 

[BestWestern]

If the rear door is off the platform, can the guard release the doors and personally stay at that door to prevent anybody trying to use it? Or would he/she not be able to effectively despatch the train in those circumstances?

Another 'competent person' (i.e Guard or similar) should be at the non-platformed door, but in essence yes.

Assuming there is time between stations could the guard physically lock the rear door out of use, then once the train has departed "unlock" it so that it's once again the normal locking mechanism?

No. The train cannot run with those doors isolated, as they would also fail to open if the emergency egress were to be operated. 'Locking them out' would need to be done after the train has come to a stand but before the doors were released, and they'd need to be reinstated again before departing but after the doors had been closed. All perfectly possible, but rather time consuming.

Bit naughty! Should be the front crew slam door. Although the intermediate doors can be used on using the butterfly/emergency door release to get bikes etc off.

Makes sense to use an intermediate door provided it 's fully platformed and fitted with controls. Removes the slightly moot issue of passengers being ushered through what is actually a non public part of the train, and also avoids the problem of some /1 sets having the dks inside the cab. Some 150s also now have a perspex cover over the external butterfly, so it makes sense to use the fitted door controls rather than break the cover.

 

[TDK]

The best and safest way was to run the train with the rear set locked out if the front 2 were enough to accommodate the passengers but then the guard would not know how busy the service would get.

 

[Geezertronic]

Depends if the ATW was booked for 4 middle, if so then something could have come in on the back of it.

Off topic I know, but is there an unofficial A, B, C platform split during the New Street upgrades? I have seen this happen with XC services which come into New Street ECS as 3 x 22x units with one going forward, one going back, and the middle one leaving when nothing is in the way?

 

[causton]

Off topic I know, but is there an unofficial A, B, C platform split during the New Street upgrades? I have seen this happen with XC services which come into New Street ECS as 3 x 22x units with one going forward, one going back, and the middle one leaving when nothing is in the way?

Did they not do this normally? I am sure I have seen 2 XC services advertised off the same platform at around the same time with one marked as "Extreme end of platform x" and one "Middle of platform x"

 

[reb0118]

The best and safest way was to run the train with the rear set locked out if the front 2 were enough to accommodate the passengers but then the guard would not know how busy the service would get.

This service has an average of about zero passengers. It starts at Newcraighall and terminates at Haymarket before heading off to the shed. The problem is not passenger loadings nor platform length at Haymarket but stopping passengers from boarding the train after it terminates.

As the train is a five car (2 + 3) with no through access, and there is limited platform assistance it can be quite hard convincing the, often inebriated, passengers on the platform that this is not their Fife service, as as we clear one coach new passengers board another. Much simpler just to open one door.

 

[NX]

Yup, it gets a bit more tricky sometimes when trains that stop at Avoncliff and Freshford have 4 coaches and there is no walk through between the two units - There was a chap who wanted to get off at Freshford but he was in the rear two coaches on a service last week and he couldn't get off, and then something snapped when we got to Avoncliff and he forced the doors open and jumped down onto the track... He should've just waited three minutes for Bradford On Avon, as that station gets all the trains Avoncliff does!

Usually with the awkward seating lay out if the train is a 150/1 (the 2+3 seats) the guard will open the local door using the furthest doors from the driver's cab in the front carriage. It all gets a bit confusing sometimes, particularly if there isn't any announcements!

It's a right royal pain the arse when we have a 150/1 and a 150/2 booked to call at Avoncliff, they'll fit just at Freshford. So it's a case of using the often to quiet PA to advise passengers it's the front vehicle only at Avoncliff and hopping they move across at Freshford. The Guard will also switch from rear to front at Freshford to enable him/her to operate the local door upon arrival. I personally perfer to operate the intermediate door on the front vehicle which allows easier access, if we have a bike on then I trip the external Butterly to allow them to leave. I can also give the driver 2/2 from the GOP, if the lead unit is a 150/1 then DKS is in the cab so I can't access it nor give 2/2, so a verbal RA is given or the driver will use their key in the DKS to give 2/2.

the problem is in both directions if stopping at the halts you have to give up revenue collection from BoA to Bath to undertake the unit hopping at Avoncliff and Freshford as we often have 150/1+158 combos en route to Bristol or Westbury.

NX

 

[Parallel]

the problem is in both directions if stopping at the halts you have to give up revenue collection from BoA to Bath to undertake the unit hopping at Avoncliff and Freshford as we often have 150/1+158 combos en route to Bristol or Westbury.

NX

Indeed, this summer I even saw a 153 + 150/1 + 150/2 ex-Weymouth stopping at Avoncliff, with the 153 leading and the 150/1 in the middle! Considering it was the evening and most station offices around that area don't stay open very late, revenue protection must be a nightmare. Interesting what you say about Freshford though, on a four car unit, sometimes all doors are released, other times it's just the one. On the down platform towards Bradford it tends to be just the local door on the trains I use, with the guard going into the front two coaches at Bath, although I'd imagine it depends on the driver and the guard.

 

[Crossover]

This service has an average of about zero passengers. It starts at Newcraighall and terminates at Haymarket before heading off to the shed. The problem is not passenger loadings nor platform length at Haymarket but stopping passengers from boarding the train after it terminates.

As the train is a five car (2 + 3) with no through access, and there is limited platform assistance it can be quite hard convincing the, often inebriated, passengers on the platform that this is not their Fife service, as as we clear one coach new passengers board another. Much simpler just to open one door.

There were a few on from Newcraighall, but yeah, two of us from Waverley to Haymarket - I did wonder if they'd lock a set out at Newcraighall, but apparently not!