Track circuit failure at Vauxhall (13/12]

[MontyP]

Track circuit failure at Vauxhall - suburban trains via Wimbledon severely disrupted yet again.

Why are there so many infrastructure failures on this stretch of line at the moment? Seems to be a couple of times per week.

 

[infobleep]

They say 13 is unlucky for some. Well this week it's been every date since Monday. I think the weekend survived unscathed. Actually there was the weather affecting some lines.

So today's disruption is a track circuit failure around Vauxhall way meaning a down slow can't be used as far as I can work out.

I was getting the 7.35 today. The coaches to form this arrive at 7.19, having been worked as a stopping service from Waterloo via Woking.

That service left 18 minutes late due to late arrival of train crew and so they cancelled the usual stations: Vauxhall, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield and Wimbledon. Whilst missing out those stations the train lost even more time and was 35 minutes late into Surbiton. I assume that was when it was getting around the problems or perhaps it couldn't get round the problem as it occurred before it could switch to a different line.

At this point you'd think they would cancel more stops and perhaps run the train fast to Guildford but as the previous stopper via Woking hadn't been for an hour, they decided they had no choice but to run it all stops to Guildford.

In terms of trains to guild via Cobham, the 7.06 departed on time but the 7.14 was cancelled due to crew shortages. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a cold going around somewhere causing that.

So when the 7.35 eventually left it was at 8.07, the time at which the 8.07 should have left. Surprisingly they haven't cancelled any stops on this service. Not even Wimbledon to Vauxhall inclusive. Perhaps they feel the hour and 1 minute gap between services means they can't. By the time they train reached Hinchley Wood it was rather bust as there were three train loads of passengers. No one was left behind but I wouldn't like to be someone trying to board at Surbtion.

However the 8.07 should be right behind us as that arrived in at 7.43. Alas it's not. That left at 8.29. I assume that had no train crew. That explains why they didn't run this train fast then. Spare a thought for people wishing to head via Bookham. 6.58 to Waterloo hasn't left yet. The 7.22 Southern service was cancelled today due to train crew shortages and the 7.58 left 25 minutes late at 8.23. There was at least a late running train from Effingham Junction. Not that passengers between Guildford and Effingham Junction could actually get to Effingham Junction, unless they caught the 7.06 that is.

Still at least it's warmer today than the last two days!

 

[infobleep]

I see after the 7.41 left 5 minutes late from Surbtion today the next stopping train was the 8.01 which led at 8.36. Just a 50 minute gap. The 8.01 was terminating short at Raynes Park, thus I can see why they wouldn't want the 8.11 to skip all the stations north of Surbiton.

Passengers from Surbtion can travel to Kingston and may well do so as long as they are aware they can do that and know a train isn't due to turn up shortly. Most of the Kingston trains, although delayed, seemed to be faring better.

 

[SWT_USER]

Are NR planning to do something about the almost daily infrastructure failures on the SWML? Or is it just going to be firefighting as problems arise. Surely there will come a point where it's costing them more in delay minutes than it will to actually properly maintain the infrastructure..

 

[30909]

Are NR planning to do something about the almost daily infrastructure failures on the SWML? Or is it just going to be firefighting as problems arise. Surely there will come a point where it's costing them more in delay minutes than it will to actually properly maintain the infrastructure..

It would seem from this and other instances over the last 6 months that there is indeed a need for a major replacement of track circuit and point motors. The only disadvantage I can see to a wholesale replacement is the potential, sometime in the future, for a repeat of the current situation. If the equipment all has the same design life then they may all start to fail at the same time. So is it a new broom or one like Trigger's?

 

[Tio Terry]

It would seem from this and other instances over the last 6 months that there is indeed a need for a major replacement of track circuit and point motors. The only disadvantage I can see to a wholesale replacement is the potential, sometime in the future, for a repeat of the current situation. If the equipment all has the same design life then they may all start to fail at the same time. So is it a new broom or one like Trigger's?

Yesterday, as we all know, was the 29th anniversary of the Clapham Junction crash, which happened because of the on-going resignalling works. That means that the equipment is now roundly 30 years old so probably is approaching the end of it's life. It won't be just the external equipment either, the interlockings must be of a similar age.

 

[Alfie1014]

Yesterday, as we all know, was the 29th anniversary of the Clapham Junction crash, which happened because of the on-going resignalling works. That means that the equipment is now roundly 30 years old so probably is approaching the end of it's life. It won't be just the external equipment either, the interlockings must be of a similar age.

I fear the GE and WA are much in the same boat,daily infrastructure failures, yesterday as reported elsewhere, two broken rails, one OLE defect, points failure, today it has been so far loss of signalling at Cambridge.

That said I’m not sure where we go, more than money than ever is being poured into the infrastructure and yet performance doesn’t get any better in fact is seems to go the other way. And yes I know there are more trains on the network than ever, but is that not part of the problem? On the GE and WA even more trains are planned in the near future as part of the franchise offer, yet little or no complimentary infrastructure upgrades are planned other than power supply yet on the face of it can’t cope reliably with today’s service levels let alone any more!

 

[rebmcr]

Is there not a plan to resignal the area in the short-to-medium term?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Is there not a plan to resignal the area in the short-to-medium term?

Alas no. Renewal of equipment yes but no resignalling and no recontrol

 

[infobleep]

It would seem from this and other instances over the last 6 months that there is indeed a need for a major replacement of track circuit and point motors. The only disadvantage I can see to a wholesale replacement is the potential, sometime in the future, for a repeat of the current situation. If the equipment all has the same design life then they may all start to fail at the same time. So is it a new broom or one like Trigger's?

If a track circuit is replaced, won't the be one last another 30 years? They do a lot of weekend engineering works. Does that include the replacement of equipment or hat us older with the same design, abet made more recently so less life expired.

According to South Western Railway

Train services running through this station may be delayed by up to 20 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 16:00
.....
Network Rail engineers have attended and have determined that there is a requirement to replace some equipment in order to rectify the fault. Until this time trains will be unable to stop at Platform 8 at Vauxhall Station. This will affect suburban services that are travelling away from London Waterloo.
Until further notice the following service plan will be in place:
- No trains will be stopping at Vauxhall Platform 8
- All trains from Waterloo towards Shepperton will run non stop between Waterloo and Norbiton
- All trains from Waterloo towards Woking on stopping services will run non stop between Waterloo and Surbiton
Other services may still be delayed by up to 20 minutes, and some may be subject to short notice alterations.

Does that means the equipment will be replaced shortly and the services returned to normal by 16.00 and disruption will resolved?

It doesn't say they are currently replacing the equipment but I would have thought they'd need to do so soon in order to avoid disruptions after 16.00.

How long does it take to replace a fault track circuit or are they complex enough that you might replace bits of it rather than needing to replacing the whole thing?

 

[BRblue]

Infobleep...

Just to pick up on a couple of things you mention.
1) Crew shortages do not necessarily mean off sick, annual leave etc, it is more likely in this scenario that crew are displaced and unable to work their booked turns.
2) You are pretty much right in your assumption that when it says disruption expected until 16.00... it is the time that they expect the repairs to have been made, any blocks taken... removed and for the service to recover to somewhere near normal.

 

[OneOffDave]

They are now saying delays expected until 2100. This feels like Monday all over again

 

[infobleep]

Infobleep...

Just to pick up on a couple of things you mention.
1) Crew shortages do not necessarily mean off sick, annual leave etc, it is more likely in this scenario that crew are displaced and unable to work their booked turns.
2) You are pretty much right in your assumption that when it says disruption expected until 16.00... it is the time that they expect the repairs to have been made, any blocks taken... removed and for the service to recover to somewhere near normal.

Thanks for that. I just thought crew not being there they need to be would come under crew late or displaced and hasn't realised they also use shortages too. There are a lot of colds going around.

It seems they were unable to resolve the issues at 16.00, which is what I had expected when writing my post earlier.

However I then looked online earlier and things didn't seem to bad. I think some of the further work NR did has lead to the further delays and when you then hit the run more trains peak, it can't cope.

So yes this will be Monday again, abet maybe not as bad as Monday. However I think not as bad will probably still mean it will be worse than most disruption.

Now SWR offer 15 min compensation they may be issuing a lot of those after this week.

Even Tuesday evening had congestion of up to 20 minutes.

 

[Olaf]

The signalling on the Wessex line between Waterloo and (I think) Surbiton was originally due for replacement in the 2020/2023 time-frame, but the route is now/was being considered for various ETRMS/ATO alternatives so they may be holding off on a replacement initiative until the outcome of that options exercise is complete (which should be around now).

 

[YorkshireBear]

I fear the GE and WA are much in the same boat,daily infrastructure failures, yesterday as reported elsewhere, two broken rails, one OLE defect, points failure, today it has been so far loss of signalling at Cambridge.

That said I’m not sure where we go, more than money than ever is being poured into the infrastructure and yet performance doesn’t get any better in fact is seems to go the other way. And yes I know there are more trains on the network than ever, but is that not part of the problem? On the GE and WA even more trains are planned in the near future as part of the franchise offer, yet little or no complimentary infrastructure upgrades are planned other than power supply yet on the face of it can’t cope reliably with today’s service levels let alone any more!

Where is this money being poured? As far as i can tell maintenance keep getting told to get mote efficient with no extra money thrown their was at all. As has been for several years.

 

[Olaf]

Where is this money being poured? As far as i can tell maintenance keep getting told to get mote efficient with no extra money thrown their was at all. As has been for several years.

Looking at the ORR accounts report it looked like a case of over zealous cutting back on the maintenance budget on the route by the (former) Route Manager - for whatever reason.

 

[Tio Terry]

Where is this money being poured? As far as i can tell maintenance keep getting told to get mote efficient with no extra money thrown their was at all. As has been for several years.

Twas ever the case, including during BR days, look up the difference between CAPEX and OPEX expenditure.

 

[MontyP]

Delayed again tonight on the way home. Still at Waterloo at 20:05 on the 19:47 Chessington service which doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Is this still the track circuit problem from this morning?

 

[infobleep]

When they said the disruption to be over by 21.00 I though that unlikely and I was right. Now saying 23.00.

Although looking at the current times of trains through Guildford, I think they will even miss that expectation. I think end of service is most likely, which is what I thought before 16.00.

I'm sure stock will be out of place for tomorrow so expect some shorter formations.

 

[infobleep]

8 minutes ago, South Western Railway tweeted that disruption will be until end of the service. I am not surprised. It's good that staff are still manning Twitter to help people.

 

[BestWestern]

I fear the GE and WA are much in the same boat,daily infrastructure failures, yesterday as reported elsewhere, two broken rails, one OLE defect, points failure, today it has been so far loss of signalling at Cambridge.

That said I’m not sure where we go, more than money than ever is being poured into the infrastructure and yet performance doesn’t get any better in fact is seems to go the other way. And yes I know there are more trains on the network than ever, but is that not part of the problem? On the GE and WA even more trains are planned in the near future as part of the franchise offer, yet little or no complimentary infrastructure upgrades are planned other than power supply yet on the face of it can’t cope reliably with today’s service levels let alone any more!

Add the GWML to that list, abysmal infrastructure reliability between London and Reading. The usual stuff; track circuit failures, points failures, etc. Whatever the subsidy to the railways might be, it is surely very clear that the current maintenance systems aren't doing the job. It does make you wonder how much of the money is going on headline-grabbing projects and how much is actually left to keep the bare bones of the network working properly, and how the priorities of each are ranked.

 

[30909]

At 05:56 Journey Check had been updated adding the info below. So as Tio Terry said above perhaps this also related to external faults such as interlocking?

"Whilst Network Rail engineers worked to investigate the issues and take corrective action, one of the lines heading away from London was blocked. The line was opened again yesterday afternoon, however it was determined that further work was required to enable the fault to be fully rectified, and the engineers have been working hard overnight, closing the line again. Upon further investigation the fault was found to be more complicated than originally thought, and it is not expected to be fixed until 06:00, which means that some early morning services will be altered whilst platforms 7 and 8 remain closed.
Until further notice the following alterations will apply:
- XX:12 and XX:42 Waterloo - Shepperton services will run fast to Norbiton
- XX:20 and XX:50 Waterloo - Woking services will run fast to Surbiton
- XX:03 and XX:33 Waterloo - Guildford via Cobham services will run fast to Surbiton
- Services from Hampton Court will run as a shuttle service to and from Surbiton
- Services between Waterloo and Dorking in both directions will be cancelled"

 

[infobleep]

Now they are saying disruption until 9am. I wonder if at 9am it will change again. This time I'm more confident it won't do that.

Now you'd think Network Rail would have known earlier than they needed to work overnight as when they changed it from 23.00 to end of service, I'm sure they didn't mention work being needed overnight. If that was known, you'd think it would have been on the disruption notice.

I have seen overnight work being mentioned with other disruption in the past.

So it's the 4th or 5th day of disruption now. The 5th if there was weather related issues on Sunday.

I've not seen any evidence of the Hampton Court shuttles running unless they are running but not showing on National Rail Enquiries App.

 

[GW43125]

This is now the fourth day in a row that upon checking my train, I've been met with a disruption message for Waterloo. It's starting to get ridiculous. 50% of the trains I've caught this week have either failed PPM or been cancelled.

 

[Cavan]

The window between clapham and vauxhall end and start of service is very small. Couple of hours max.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Twas ever the case, including during BR days, look up the difference between CAPEX and OPEX expenditure.

Quite. My question was very much rhetorical, i knew the answer!

 

[infobleep]

On top of the Vauxhall issue, a passenger was taken I'll at Wimbledon. I hope they aren't too ill and recover ok. That is adding an up to further 20 minute delay.

In terms Vauxhall itself however disruption to 11.00 now, so my thinking it would likely be resolved by 9.00 as previously predicted by South Western Railway is wrong. Perhaps they need to add a caveat but maybe later when they put a disruption expected end time.

The disruption time has changed 7 times as far as I can recall. These being:
10:00; 16:00; 21:00; 23:00; end of service; 9:00 and 11:00

The nature of problems and extent of disruption will change as they investigate and fix a problem but some passengers will not be happy about it being extent Ed every so many hours.

I noticed the following ticket acceptance no ice didn't mention their own services. I assume reasonable routes on South Western Railway is a given, even if not mentioned.

How We're Helping You Complete Your Journey:
To assist you with your journey this morning you can use your tickets with other operators on the following routes:
- Great Western Railway services via any reasonable route.
- Southern Railway services via any reasonable route.
- London Underground via any reasonable route.
- TFL London Buses in the South West London area (Hampton, Surbiton, Chessington, Kingston areas)

 

[infobleep]

According to the National Service Indicator page:

South Western Railway Minor delays on some routes

Latest travel news

Twitter Follow us on Twitter
Surbiton - Clapham Junction Delays between Surbiton and Clapham Junction expected until 12:00 Read about this disruption
Vauxhall Disruption to / from London Waterloo expected until 11:00 Read about this disruption

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/indicator.aspx
What is the maximum length of a minor delay before it becomes major?

I see some trains are still marked as delayed. For example the 9.00 Waterloo to Portsmouth via Petersfield hasn't left yet. That's 23 minute delay and counting.

If minor was just under 20 minutes for most journeys then it could now be said that South Western Railway now pay out for minor delays.

 

[hwl]

Just a thought to ponder...

Are these track circuit failures actually track circuit signalling equipment failures or impedance bond failures, if the later (which is most likely) are there lots of the older more problematic types outside the area that was re-signaled at Waterloo in August (which got the newer joint less (audio-frequency) type track circuit equipment which don't have impedance bonds). Are the retractioned 455 (programme completed) and more 10 car services a little harder on the impedance bonds causing more failures?

 

[Tio Terry]

Just a thought to ponder...

Are these track circuit failures actually track circuit signalling equipment failures or impedance bond failures, if the later (which is most likely) are there lots of the older more problematic types outside the area that was re-signaled at Waterloo in August (which got the newer joint less (audio-frequency) type track circuit equipment which don't have impedance bonds). Are the retractioned 455 (programme completed) and more 10 car services a little harder on the impedance bonds causing more failures?

A lot of work was carried out in this area when Waterloo International opened and E*'s started running over this stretch of infrastruscture, I'm sure this included replacement of Imp. Bonds as well as traction cable doubling so some of them may well have been replaced.