Hi all, This is my first time posting so sorry if its already covered. Ive just been looking at the timetable for services and noticed that they appear to be running a Fri and Sat only Glasgow to Blackpool and return service between July and September. This is portion worked with the existing MIA services. If I have picked this up wrong then my apologies but what do you think of this??
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TPExpress New Scottish Timetable
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tbtc
Veteran Member
If true (not seen anything about it elsewhere) then that's excellent news; I could see a lot of demand for this one if it happens
jamesontheroad
Established Member
Tempting - I'd already seen TPE Advance fares Glasgow / Blackpool advertised. I know that one of Scottish Citylink's only scheduled services south of the border is to Blackpool. Seems to be a hardened core of 'weegies who like to be beside that particular stretch of seaside in the summer 
dk1
Veteran Member
On a Saturday it looks like there is a 10.10 Glasgow to Blackpool North (arr 13.12) & 13.15 Blackpool North to Glasgow. Both are detatched/attached from Manchester Airport workings at Preston. Excellent stuff as there are have always been large flows from this part of Scotland to the Fylde Coast. TPx should be shouting about these new through trains.
Solent&Wessex
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It is indeed the case that these services are operating. Unfortunately they are operating, as usual, to the detriment of other services on the traditional TPE routes. The additional units required are being sourced by reducing the number of 6 car sets on the North Route on certain services and by replacing a 185 with a 170 on the South route on a Friday.
thanks 4 the replies. being from the glasgow area i can say that with some advertising these trains will be packed. iirc the last time a direct train between the two ran was in late 90's early 00's using class 158s. correct me if i am misunderstood. Also do glasgow conductors sign BPN to work the train the full route?
Donny Dave
Established Member
:roll: Also, what's the betting that the odd pair of 170s we get on the South route is split up as well to cover for these extra sets ....
Scunthorpe/Doncaster/Sheffield - Manchester is bad enough at times, the last thing we need is less capacity on the South route....
Jordy
Established Member
Good idea for a new service, but again TPE seem to be ignoring the actual Trans Pennine routes, probably not their fault though.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
TPE are not terribly good on geography I see
tbtc
Veteran Member
That's a pretty tight turnaround at Blackpool
Not great surprise that TPE are downgrading more routes through Sheffield; I think they'd dump the two car 170s on us all the time if they could get away with it.
Now, in an ideal world, you'd have three 185s from Glasgow (stopping at Motherwell)/ Stirling (stopping at Cumbernauld/ Coatbridge)/ Edinburgh (stopping at Haymarket) joining up at Carstairs then heading for Preston, to split off into Blackpool/ Liverpool/ Manchester Airport services
(because, if TPE are running Glasgow to Blackpool, then surely they have considered Scotland to Merseyside?)
gordonthemoron
Established Member
They may be concerned about someone nicking the train's wheels...
Cheeky git!
The only problem with your plan then tbtc, is that if each portion goes off somewhere else, everyones going to do a mad swap at Preston if they came from Glasgow but want to go to Blackpool but their portion is going to Liverpool. Nice idea though.
The only problem with your plan then tbtc, is that if each portion goes off somewhere else, everyones going to do a mad swap at Preston if they came from Glasgow but want to go to Blackpool but their portion is going to Liverpool. Nice idea though.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Yeah, it would work a lot better with corridor connected stock (which means either loco-hauled or 158s, at the moment), I appreciate you could get some mad scrambles as the Edinburgh folk run the length of the platform with their Blackpool Beach Towels as the Glasgow people barge past them in the other direction with their suitcases for Manchester Airport (or vice versa).
However, I'm a big fan of portion working like this, and would do the same on Cross Country given the chance
gordonthemoron
Established Member
I doubt Edinburgh folk are that fussed about going to Blackpool
tbtc
Veteran Member
An idea of mine is that when the blackpool-preston, wigan to liverpool and preston to manchester lines are electrified that a mini franchise could be created using Class 350 or similar. Removing the Northwest Scottish route from TPE and putting it into a franchise of Liverpool/ Manchester Airport and Blackpool North to Glasgow and Edinburgh. This would then release the handful of 185's diagrammed on these services to go and strengthen the proper TPE routes where it is greatly needed. I have always thought that putting the Scotland-Manchester trains to TPE was a DaFT thing to do especially with the rolling stock that TPE have.
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dk1
Veteran Member
That's a pretty tight turnaround at Blackpool
I wonder if they will either be swapping 185s over at North Station or the inbound service has quite a bit of recovery time.
Just over 3 hours seems about right as it is usually about 2hr 30 from Glasgow to Preston on TPE, add on the 26 minutes or so to Blackpool and the time spent detaching the trains at Preston including booked departure time and the journey length seems about right. I would imagine that there will already be a 185 in Blackpool before this arrives as it is far too tight to get the passengers off , train cleaned and reservations on and board passengers to travel back. Logic would say that this train would make the next Manchester Airport service and the earlier arrival from MIA would take over the Glasgow diagram. I am unsure of departure times and layover times on the NW Blackpool route.
MidnightFlyer
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Except for slight price differences and if you work for them,, why would anyone travel Scotland-Preston/BPL on TPE or a 185. They are worse than Voyagers on such a route.
People don't think too much about that. Especially when you're off to Blackpool. As long as the family get a seat on this service, that's all people will want, because (being stingy Weegies!) they'll bring their ain pieces, and some entertainment as well.
This would work well, and indeed is/was part of the Glasgow Trains proposal (which seems to have died a death). There's a huge market for this journey, and a direct train will no doubt be popular, even if it is a 185.
Considering people are willing to sit on the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet for hours on end (and pay quite a bit for the privilege), I think 185s will do the job well, as is currently the case. Not ideal, granted, but they'll work.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Direct trains I suspect. No risk of missed connection. I would always take the direct option over a change at preston. You could ask why anyone would use gc to west Yorkshire. The 180s are not exactly wonderful units.
well sorry if having something to eat that u actually like and having an i-pod makes us look bad. sometimes getting a train that is a time to suit or is value for money means that we appear second class to you.
MidnightFlyer
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Missed connection? There are 5 tph PRE-BPL (4 to North and 1 incredibley slow train to South) mind you holiday people may not know that. Preston ain't too bad! 180s are OK - they could just do with a refresh inside after having about 100 different owners/leaser in 5 years.
Failed Unit
Established Member
But what about going the other way? Normally only one per hour to Scotland. Even if you leave 20 minutes at Preston you may be delayed enough to miss your train. Dragging baggage over the bridges is another reason people will use it. The logic has worked for Hull trains I mean why would anyone use the when you can change at Doncaster. Likewise why use wsrc there are 5 trains per hour from Birmingham to London.
MidnightFlyer
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Actually 2/3 an hour to Scotland - 1 Euston-Glasgow, 1 Bhm New St-Scotland and 1 Manc-Scotland service. it would not be that hard to get back!
Failed Unit
Established Member
You are missing the point people prefer direct trains. I have just travelled from Preston to Scotland. There were definately only 2 in that hour very close together. 1539 Glasgow and 1552 Edinburgh. Had I missed the 1539 I would have needed to wait for the next service at 1652 or travelled vai Edinburgh. If you have a direct train you have no risk
dk1
Veteran Member
On the subject of the two close together, i recently caught the 12.30 Euston-Lancaster & we where delayed 17mins by a signal problem near Tamworth. The very helpful train manager reassured those wanting the Scottish connection that she was speaking with control & would do her best for them. She then said that it was unfortunatley now in front (with the same stopping pattern). On arrival at Bank Quay the Voyager was in the opposite platform & she seemed more delighted than them to announce it had been held back for us & that we would make a same platform connection at Preston. Thats how to run a railway.
& by the way it arrived right time into Glasgow.
Well, that was unprovoked. I come from Glasgow, and often bring an iPod, a book/newspaper and "ma ain pieces" on a long distance train.
Maybe if you actually read my post in context, you'd realise what I was actually talking about. A Pendolino to London needs the full service, because there's businesspeople with more (of their companies) money than sense sitting in First Class. On the other hand, a family going to Blackpool are going to be in standard class, probably will bring their own food (because of the extortionate price and variable quality of the on-train service) and maybe have something with them to keep the kids occupied. This is the main market for a Blackpool train (that and the young adult group), so what I was saying is that the 185 provides a suitable (although not ideal) level of service.
The best benefit to the direct train is that, in my experience, the Blackpool trains can get very busy, and if you're going down with luggage, getting on the train at Preston can be a nightmare!
MidnightFlyer
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OK - didn't want to start a massive deal over it. Good to see such services commencing tho.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Euston isn't quite hourly, neither is Manchester, but the main issues are that
1. ...the Preston - Edinburgh service is no use for Glasgow passengers (and vice versa). The way round this would be to stop them at Carstairs and connect to the Central - Waverley ECML service (or portion working)
2... the distribution of services to Glasgow/ Edinburgh isn't exactly uniform. Whilst the Glasgow and Edinburgh services to Birmingham/ Manchester are roughly 50/50, you often have two Glasgow services followed by two Edinburgh services
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