TPE vs Virgin. Manchester - Edinburgh/Glasgow

[VideozVideoz]

Hi All. I don't have any old timetables but does anyone know if the Virgin Manchester-Edinburgh/Glasgow services (ending 2007) were quicker than the current TPE journeys? I'm guessing the answer is 'yes' as their Voyagers were faster. What was the general travel time for the Virgin services?

 

[WestCoast]

From what I can vaguely remember I don't think they were much quicker at all! I don't think they were timed for considerable amounts of 125mph running - obviously not between Manchester and Preston anyway. I did hear that the 185s (Pennines as they were known on introduction) were actually able to keep up with the Voyagers timings.

I remember there were less services and they didn't run from the airport.

Still, If I had my way, TPE would be running Adelantes on this route.

 

[Lampshade]

The Voyagers had extensive dwell time at Preston and other stations, by removing this the times are much the same now.

 

[tbtc]

Voyagers didn't stop at anywhere between Manchester Piccadilly and Preston, apart from Bolton (pick up northbound, set down southbound) IIRC

 

[VideozVideoz]

Interesting stuff. I'd prefer it if it ran non-stop Manc-Preston then onto Lancaster-Carlisle-Glasgow/Edinburgh. That would make the journey approx 2h 58mins. Thanks guys for your input.

 

[WestCoast]

Voyagers didn't stop at anywhere between Manchester Piccadilly and Preston, apart from Bolton (pick up northbound, set down southbound) IIRC

*Digs out old VXC timetable"

I really do miss the days of being able to catch a Virgin train from Preston to Manchester. The 185s are usually packed out, the "fast" Voyagers seem like such a luxury!

In fact, it was great when the WCML had Scotland - South West England services, now it's all just to Birmingham!

 

[Lampshade]

Interesting stuff. I'd prefer it if it ran non-stop Manc-Preston then onto Lancaster-Carlisle-Glasgow/Edinburgh. That would make the journey approx 2h 58mins. Thanks guys for your input.

The problem now is the loss of the Windermere service which necessitates the stop at Oxenholme. Also, why every service needs to stop at Chorley is beyond me hock:

 

[Jonny]

Voyagers didn't stop at anywhere between Manchester Piccadilly and Preston, apart from Bolton (pick up northbound, set down southbound) IIRC

I remember Bolton, southbound by Virgin Voyager being a pick-up and set down stop (announced as such) towards the end of the voyager period. I did the journey once on a GMPTE-area zonal ticket, no problems - as far as I knew it was valid. It spent ages sitting at signals on approach to Manchester though.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Sorry what's the loss of the Windermere service that started today? I've not had chance to compare the difference between old/new TPE timetables.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember Bolton, southbound by Virgin Voyager being a pick-up and set down stop (announced as such) towards the end of the voyager period. I did the journey once on a GMPTE-area zonal ticket, no problems - as far as I knew it was valid. It spent ages sitting at signals on approach to Manchester though.

Doesn't anything spend ages sitting at signals approaching Manchester? Probably the most congested part of the network in the North West!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Interesting stuff. I'd prefer it if it ran non-stop Manc-Preston then onto Lancaster-Carlisle-Glasgow/Edinburgh. That would make the journey approx 2h 58mins. Thanks guys for your input.

Assuming that you still mean that these trains will start and finish their journeys at Manchester Airport rail station, there is the current problem of the Manchester Piccadilly to Deansgate section of this route, with stopping trains needing platform availability, which, with only platforms 13 and 14 being currently available at Manchester Piccadilly, will not be resolved until the new projected platforms 15 and 16 come on line.

Not all that many trains run non-stop through Manchester Oxford Road station, with the exception of the Freightliner services.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Hi Paul. Nope, I was actually talking about Piccadilly-Glasgow/Edinburgh being sub-3hours. Unfortunately im well aware of the congestion around Salford Crescent-Deansgate-Piccadilly (see my previous post about the approach being the most congested part of the network in the north west!)

 

[Lampshade]

Not all that many trains run non-stop through Manchester Oxford Road station, with the exception of the Freightliner services.

Some TPE services on Sundays run through non-stop, otherwise everything stops there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some TPE services on Sundays run through non-stop, otherwise everything stops there.

Thanks for that. I was referring to the Monday to Friday service patterns when the heaviest business travel occurs.

If only all days were Sundays...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Also, why every service needs to stop at Chorley is beyond me

It's handy that they do stop at Chorley, for cheap Manchester->Edinburgh walk-up fare opportunities (!)

 

[northwichcat]

The Voyagers had extensive dwell time at Preston and other stations, by removing this the times are much the same now.

Yes that's the first thing I noticed when I first saw the Dec 07 TPE timetable, TPE also reduced the amount of time the train was stopped at other stations such as Lancaster and Carlisle. I think the VXC timings were done for 110mph running so either a 220 or a 221 could run to time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The problem now is the loss of the Windermere service which necessitates the stop at Oxenholme. Also, why every service needs to stop at Chorley is beyond me hock:

That dates back from FNW days where the hourly pattern was:
Buxton to Blackpool
Man Airport to Blackpool
Man Airport to Windermere/Barrow

The Scottish service took the place of the Windermere service so the stopping pattern remain the same up to Lancaster with the exception of Salford Crescent. The Salford stop being removed because of pathing issues and because Northern added a new service at that time. It was also found that something like 97% of tickets sold from Salford were for either Manchester or Bolton, so retaining long distance services for Salford were seen as less important than for other stations.

You could argue that the Piccadilly-Alderley Edge services aren't needed off-peak and that Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme could manage with 2tph off-peak when other off-peak enhancements would be of greater benefit.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Hi JCollins. 2 queries:

1) Does that mean Alderley Edge services off-peak are empty most of the time? I've rarely travelled on that route (last time was on the old electric trains - similar to diesel class 101 but im unsure of the class number! You couldn't walk through to the next carriage)

2) What are these changes that have occured to the Windermere service in the new timetable?

 

[northwichcat]

1) Does that mean Alderley Edge services off-peak are empty most of the time? I've rarely travelled on that route (last time was on the old electric trains - similar to diesel class 101 but im unsure of the class number! You couldn't walk through to the next carriage)

Yes. There's rarely more than about 40 people on them off-peak and they use a 323 with up to 280 seats, even at peak times that service could cope with a 2 car 142.

2) What are these changes that have occured to the Windermere service in the new timetable?

The change was made in Dec 07. Prior to that the standard pattern on the Bolton corridor was:
Buxton to Blackpool NT (hourly 2 or 4 car 150/156 operated)
Man Airport to Blackpool TPE (hourly 185 operated)
Man Airport to Lancaster TPE (hourly 185 operated- final destination alternated between Barrow and Windermere)
Man Piccadilly to Carlisle VT (2 hourly 22x operated- final destination alternated between Glasgow and Edinburgh.)

The pattern is now:
Man Victoria to Blackpool NT (hourly 142/150/153/156/180 operated)
Hazel Grove to Preston NT (hourly 142/150/156 operated)
Man Airport to Blackpool TPE (hourly 185 operated)
Man Airport to Lancaster TPE (hourly 185 operated - final destination alternates between Barrow and Glasgow or Edinburgh)

There were and still are some off-pattern services particularly at busy times but the above is the standard pattern

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also, why every service needs to stop at Chorley is beyond me hock:

I think when the new transport interchange was built at Chorley, across the new town centre relief road on Shepherds Way from the railway station, Lancashire County Council saw this as a major transport hub for the catchment area that is north of Bolton and south of Preston. Numerically, the population of that area warrents a station with full interchange facilities. I note that the X61 Manchester to Preston/Blackpool limited stop bus service operated by Stagecoach North West and National Express coaches are programmed to use this interchange.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Much preferred the Virgin Manchester-Preston service to the one provided by TPE. Always guaranteeed a seat on a Virgin train at least.

Nevertheless when you can get a seat on a TPE they are very good, reliable and comfortable.

 

[Safety365]

I really do miss the days of being able to catch a Virgin train from Preston to Manchester. The 185s are usually packed out, the "fast" Voyagers seem like such a luxury!

Tomorrow (Weds 25th May) you can catch a VT ash -cloud rescue service. 2040-dep Edinburgh, 2315-dep Preston, 0001-dep Crewe, 0031-arr Man Picc.

Presumably a change of ends at Crewe to keep 1st Class at the London end.

info from here...