TPE using Northern Rail Class 156 units

[Lddex]

Hello

Excuse me if this has been posted or answered but today I was at Piccadilly and waiting to catch my connection to Oxford Road on the TPE to Blackpool :46 service. The train that rolled in was a Northern (Not sure of type) all it had on it to tell people it was the TPE was stickers in the carriage Windows evenly spaced. I didn't catch the driver to see if he was a Northern or TPE driver.

My question is why is this - Is this part of the franchise agreement. Would this be happening more?

Also would it be manned by TPE staff as I know from my friends who drive they learn to drive specific classes of train and I don't think this engine even exists in the TPE fleet?

 

[northwichcat]

Short version is TransPennine Express were unable to sign a lease extension for some of their trains due to DfT being slow at arranging a franchise extension. This meant Chiltern Railways signed a lease for 9 of TPE's trains (class 170 Turbostars.)

There is a nationwide shortage of diesel trains so the only solution DfT could come up with when they got round to the franchise extension was loaning trains from Northern Rail (class 156 Sprinters) which are 13 years older than the Turbostars, slower and lack a First Class section. The train would have been worked by TPE staff.

 

[55z]

The loco hauled trains on Cumbrian Coast released the 156's in order that Northern could lease some 156's to TPexp. The Cumbrian Coast Loco hauls are funded by the Dept of Transport. The 156's can be different each day. They operate Manchester Airport, Manchester Oxford Road to Blackpool North and Barrow-in-Furness. One diagram is 0831 Manchester Oxford Road to Barrow as a double 156, the rear unit is dropped off at Preston with only the front 156 working to Barrow returns as 1113 Barrow to Blackpool North via Preston.

 

[northwichcat]

The loco hauled trains on Cumbrian Coast released the 156's in order that Northern could lease some 156's to TPexp.

That's a small part of the story. There is one loco-hauled set which replaced a 156 diagram, providing an increase in capacity on that diagram at the same time.

The rest are 156s which have either been released by Chat Moss electrification and were due to be redeployed on to other Northern services, or 156s which have been released by using 142s/150s released by electrification on Northern services which were previously 156s.

 

[Greybeard33]

That's a small part of the story. There is one loco-hauled set which replaced a 156 diagram, providing an increase in capacity on that diagram at the same time.

The rest are 156s which have either been released by Chat Moss electrification and were due to be redeployed on to other Northern services, or 156s which have been released by using 142s/150s released by electrification on Northern services which were previously 156s.

There are two LHCS sets on the Cumbrian Coast (see this thread), so two DMUs released. I do not know if both diagrams were previously booked as 156s, but if not the second unit will have been redeployed to enable a second 156 to be released elsewhere on the Northern network.

 

[Esker-pades]

Prehaps this will provide some further information.

 

[yorkie]

Prehaps this will provide some further information.

Indeed. The Frequently Requested Diagrams Thread, excellently produced by SprinterMan, is a very useful resource!

Hello

Excuse me if this has been posted or answered....

A Google search of this site for your chosen thread title "TPE using Northern", despite not mentioning the word trains or the full company names, impressively still produces these results:

• 156s to TransPennine Express
• Rolling stock announcement regarding TPE

 

[Greybeard33]

Indeed. The A Google search of this site for your chosen thread title "TPE using Northern", despite not mentioning the word trains or the full company names, impressively still produces these results:

• 156s to TransPennine Express
• Rolling stock announcement regarding TPE

Really? When I try a Google search with those search terms, it yields 4800 results! The "Rolling stock announcement regarding TPE" thread appears on the second page of results and the other one (which is currently listed on Page 22 of the Traction and Rolling Stock Forum) is no doubt buried in there somewhere, but I could not see it on the first few pages. If "TPE using Northern" is entered in the keywords box of RailUK's own Search Forums tool, use of which is recommended in the site FAQ, it turns up 494 threads, which can be narrowed down to 484 by using the "Search Titles Only" option in Advanced Search!

Unfortunately, if you are not a regular user of RailUK with a good memory, adept use of a search engine and considerable patience can be needed to find previous threads relevant to a topic of interest. And even then you may find that the previous thread has been closed.

 

[Buspilot]

My wife is travelling from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North next week, returning 10 days later. She normally uses first class,as she has found some of the passengers in second unsavoury on more than one occasion. On a 185 she can also keep an eye on her baggage.

She finds that a Northern 156 operating these services with no first class or adequate stowage for baggage is a retrograde step and she does not feel as safe as when TPE used their own 185s. She does not like changing trains and whilst she could use TPE Scotland services to/from Preston with achange,finds the offering in state of stock from Preston to Blackpool leaves a lot to be desired.

Despite both services she will be using being 156 second class only operated, the National Rail website is still trying to sell First Class upgrades for these services. Misrepresentation and if you bought a First return ticket, fraud springs to mind.

 

[rebmcr]

My wife is travelling from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North next week, returning 10 days later. She normally uses first class,as she has found some of the passengers in second unsavoury on more than one occasion. On a 185 she can also keep an eye on her baggage.

She finds that a Northern 156 operating these services with no first class or adequate stowage for baggage is a retrograde step and she does not feel as safe as when TPE used their own 185s. She does not like changing trains and whilst she could use TPE Scotland services to/from Preston with achange,finds the offering in state of stock from Preston to Blackpool leaves a lot to be desired.

Despite both services she will be using being 156 second class only operated, the National Rail website is still trying to sell First Class upgrades for these services. Misrepresentation and if you bought a First return ticket, fraud springs to mind.

If TPE could run the service with any better vehicles, they would. It's either this or cancellation.

National Rail are a seperate system that isn't set up to deal with stock substitution — of course, any 1st fares sold would be able to request reimbursement, calling it fraud is quite the overreaction.

 

[Buspilot]

calling it fraud is quite the overreaction.

No it's not robmcr. The public in the UK put up with too much without complaining. The fare should not be being offered. If you buy it, by being mislead, the onus should not be on the customer to apply for a refund. Surely you have someone in the Country who can amend a computer program.

 

[Greybeard33]

I am sure that the majority of passengers appreciate the additional second class seating capacity in a 4-car double 156 versus a 3-car 185. Particularly in the busy holiday season. I have been on TPE 185s that became so overcrowded that the train manager announced that second class passengers could use first class and that first class passengers could apply for a refund.

 

[MCR247]

Despite both services she will be using being 156 second class only operated, the National Rail website is still trying to sell First Class upgrades for these services. Misrepresentation and if you bought a First return ticket, fraud springs to mind.

First class tickets should still be offered except advance first tickets

 

[Bungle965]

My wife is travelling from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North next week, returning 10 days later. She normally uses first class,as she has found some of the passengers in second unsavoury on more than one occasion. On a 185 she can also keep an eye on her baggage.

If she ever feels unsafe she can always go and tell the guard.
Sam

 

[Esker-pades]

In order to try to get back to a less confrontational stance, for how long are the Northern 156's going to be with First TransPennine Express?

 

[ainsworth74]

This thread is for discussing the deployment of 156s onto TPE services. It is not for discussing anything to do with the current status of Blackpool Airport nor is it a place for members to be rude to each other and ignore our Forum Rules.

Please ensure that future posts remain on the topic at hand.

Thanks

 

[jonesy3001]

Think the toilet is the best bet to get out of the way from the normal folk.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

My wife is travelling from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North next week, returning 10 days later. She normally uses first class,as she has found some of the passengers in second unsavoury on more than one occasion. On a 185 she can also keep an eye on her baggage.
s to mind.

Suggest she uses the xx:16 TPE scottish service from piccadilly to Preston, then change onto the Northern Rail service which runs from York to Blackpool North. That way she still gets 90%of the benefit of travelling first class!

 

[thealexweb]

I am sure that the majority of passengers appreciate the additional second class seating capacity in a 4-car double 156 versus a 3-car 185. Particularly in the busy holiday season. I have been on TPE 185s that became so overcrowded that the train manager announced that second class passengers could use first class and that first class passengers could apply for a refund.

A lot of of Transpennine's Blackpool services used to be six car Class 185 workings, often doubling up with Edinburgh, Glasgow, Windermere and Barrow workings. When the Class 350/4's arrived though 90% of these six car workings ended sadly.

Sadly I have never seen a Transpennine conductor declassify First class even in extreme scenarios. I have however seen First class 'invaded' with the conductor essentially powerless to remove standard class passengers. For example, sometime prior to December 2013 my Edinburgh / Blackpool double Class 185 train was cancelled so everyone piled into the next service to Preston, which happened to be a single Class 185 to Barrow. There was a long dwell time with passengers already on the train being slow to move down the aisle. Angry passengers still on the platform refused to allow the train to depart and instead piled in the only remaining space which happened to be in First class.

 

[northwichcat]

In order to try to get back to a less confrontational stance, for how long are the Northern 156's going to be with First TransPennine Express?

Until next April. Next April the Blackpool, Windermere and Barrow TPE services transfer to Northern and by the end of 2019 Northern will have to introduce 'Regional Express' standard trains with modern interiors with 2+2 seating and tables including air conditioning and wi-fi, as well as an on-board trolley service.