TPE restriction code alteration in next NFM

[mikeg]

I believe the next NFM isn't out yet, but from the journey planners (specifically the Crosscountry mobile app) I have noticed on every existing 8A restricted off-peak fare priced by TPE, from the not too distant future it is now showing that the off peak fare is no longer valid before 0900 Monday to Friday.

I knew there'd be some pain with the plan to change TPE into a premium paying franchise, but did not expect it to be so quick and so painful.

 

[northwichcat]

Can you give some examples?

TPE priced off-peak returns (old Savers) from my station have had restriction I8 for a long time - not valid before 07:45. That means by the time I need to catch a connecting train to get to a station that TPE serve the earliest TPE service I can board with an off-peak ticket is the 09:28 Stockport to Cleethorpes service and it's later for North TPE or the Scottish route.

 

[mikeg]

Sure, just a few I tried, all involving my home station and currently carrying the 8A restriction:

York/Thirsk to Stoke on Trent
York/Thirsk to Crewe
Thirsk/Northallerton to Malton/Seamer/Scarborough
Thirsk to Selby
Thirsk to Carlisle
Thirsk to Newcastle
Thirsk to Hexham

 

[northwichcat]

Sure, just a few I tried, all involving my home station and currently carrying the 8A restriction:

York/Thirsk to Stoke on Trent
York/Thirsk to Crewe
Thirsk/Northallerton to Malton/Seamer/Scarborough
Thirsk to Selby
Thirsk to Carlisle
Thirsk to Newcastle
Thirsk to Hexham

I suppose the positive thing from Thirsk is there's a 09:04 departure to York.

For Thirsk to Hexham I'd suggest splitting at Yarm - £14.40 Anytime Day Return for Thirsk to Yarm and £23.90 Anytime Return for Yarm to Hexham undercuts the £40.60 Off-Peak Return for Thirsk to Hexham, never mind the Anytime fare!

 

[yorkie]

Purchasing a combination of tickets (aka "split ticketing" or "splitting tickets") is the solution.

Often this will reduce the fare to below the price charged before draconian rises, which is particularly satisfying when you know that you are giving TPE less revenue than if they had left the already too high fares alone. That's karma!

For example:

York to Stoke on Trent (returning same day) goes from £55.70 up to a ludicrous £71.90, but Trainsplit will do this for a grand total of £51.84 (example itinerary: out: depart YRK 0737, arrive SOT 0949 rtn: depart SOT 1848, arrive YRK 2058).

 

[OwlMan]

Changed to restriction code TB

National Rail

Restriction Code
TB

Applicable days
Monday-Friday

Outward Travel
Not valid on services timed to depart between 04:29 and 09:00

Return Travel
Not valid on services timed to depart between 04:29 and 09:00

 

[pdq]

There's a poster at Huddersfield Station which refers to peak/off peak changes from the beginning of next month. I'll try and get a shot of it next time I'm passing through - but this may not be until the end of next week.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Ticket types are changing g as well (at least the three letter codes)


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[Merseysider]

Ticket types are changing g as well (at least the three letter codes)


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What are the main changes, if you're able to share?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Can't find the details at the moment but I've seen a PIF about the changes


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[xotGD]

If return portions aren't valid before 9.00 this will stop my current method of saving money when going Leeds to Manchester twice in the same week. (I.e. getting an off peak Manchester to Leeds ticket for the middle two journies.)

 

[janb]

Getting rid of 8A.

Various restrictions,
T1 - 0745
TA - 0915
TB - 0900
TF - 0845
TO - 0830
TP - 0815
TR - 0800
TU - 0715
TV - 0700
TW - 0645
TX - 0630
TY - 0615
TZ - 0930

Restriction applies on both outward and return.

 

[northwichcat]

Getting rid of 8A.

Various restrictions,
T1 - 0745
TA - 0915
TB - 0900
TF - 0845
TO - 0830
TP - 0815
TR - 0800
TU - 0715
TV - 0700
TW - 0645
TX - 0630
TY - 0615
TZ - 0930

Restriction applies on both outward and return.

Nice and confusing for passengers then!

 

[Merseysider]

Are guards seriously expected to remember 13 new restrictions in place of 1? I can see it potentially causing a lot of hassle and slowing down onboard ticket checks

 

[Wallsendmag]

Are guards seriously expected to remember 13 new restrictions in place of 1? I can see it potentially causing a lot of hassle and slowing down onboard ticket checks

They don't have to remember the restriction just where it's explained on their TIS


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[Bletchleyite]

8A is rather silly[1] (I'd replace all 8As with Anytime tickets at the same price even if not adjusting restrictions) but this does seem more than a little messy.

I think TPE would actually fit quite well a restriction of "no arrival into Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, York or Newcastle between 0700-0930, no departure from those cities between 1630-1830, passing through counts as both an arrival and a departure" as a blanket thing on all tickets. For those you didn't really want to restrict, just keep the Anytime fares fairly low (but not so low they create anomalies). If there would be a big problem with Darlington-Durham and the likes having no peak, just add them as cities.

(That restriction, while it would create *some* anomalies, is probably about as good as you could get if you wanted to standardise it nationally, you'd just need a longer list of cities, and *possibly* an exceptional wider peak for London, say 0630-1030 and 1600-1900, but I think the standard above would by and large work for all other cities of any significance in terms of travel demand)

[1] Not as silly as when the most expensive unrestricted return fares in the North West were all 8A "Savers", but not far off.

 

[yorkie]

8A is rather silly[1] (I'd replace all 8As with Anytime tickets at the same price even if not adjusting restrictions) but this does seem more than a little messy.

Northern rebranded 8A Savers as Anytimes, but TPE have a very different policy. Of course, this has introduced many anomalies and "splitting" opportunities, so it's effectively a tax on people who don't either interrogate the fares database or use sites like Trainsplit.

I think TPE would actually fit quite well a restriction of "no arrival into Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, York or Newcastle between 0700-0930

TPE used to do that!

no departure from those cities between 1630-1830

That would be unlawful; these are regulated fares.

Virgin Trains were caught red handed when they introduced evening peak restrictions from MKC and they had to backtrack very quickly when someone posted the details on this forum and the matter got reported to the DfT.

 

[janb]

I think TPE would actually fit quite well a restriction of "no arrival into Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, York or Newcastle between 0700-0930,

Thats the other thing they are getting rid of in this round, where fares were "no arrival into X before" they are now "no departure before".

 

[lyndhurst25]

Northern rebranded their 8A Savers to Anytime SORs (good move) and then changed most of them to Anytime Short Return SHRs (bad move for those who want an overnight break of journey).

I see that Virgin must have recently spotted that a certain Merseyside to Surrey SVR was coded 8A and have now changed it to VK, so no arrival in Euston before 1025 now . Does anyone know of a suitable replacement?

 

[mikeg]

It would seem there are some hikes outright of unregulated fares too. Thirsk to York CDR up from £11.20 to £11.50, to name but one.

This particular one feels especially rotten given the introduction of the Northallerton to York route TPE ONLY offpeak day return for £10.80. Price gouging at its worst. Of course, passengers should simply ask for the Northallerton fare when going to/from Thirsk from/to York... That or travel Grand Central!

Do they really think we are idiots?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

8A is rather silly[1] (I'd replace all 8As with Anytime tickets at the same price even if not adjusting restrictions) but this does seem more than a little messy.

8A means no break of journey, thus invalidating starting/ending short.
ATW introduced a lot of those recently, maybe this is an industry way of making split ticketing harder.
It certainly reduces the flexibility of journey planning.
I wonder if the new TPE (formerly 8A) restrictions allow break of journey?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would seem there are some hikes outright of unregulated fares too. Thirsk to York CDR up from £11.20 to £11.50, to name but one.

This particular one feels especially rotten given the introduction of the Northallerton to York route TPE ONLY offpeak day return for £10.80. Price gouging at its worst. Of course, passengers should simply ask for the Northallerton fare when going to/from Thirsk from/to York... That or travel Grand Central!

Do they really think we are idiots?

2% increase is hardly price-gouging.

If the TPE fare does not bar break of journey, go ahead!

 

[Bletchleyite]

ATW introduced a lot of those recently, maybe this is an industry way of making split ticketing harder.

Its main purpose is (and always was) preventing people using a period return as a season ticket.

It doesn't affect splitting because splitting doesn't generally involve starting/stopping short.

 

[yorkie]

8A means no break of journey, thus invalidating starting/ending short.
ATW introduced a lot of those recently, maybe this is an industry way of making split ticketing harder.
It certainly reduces the flexibility of journey planning.
I wonder if the new TPE (formerly 8A) restrictions allow break of journey?

BoJ restrictions are only enforceable if explained to the customer at the time of purchase.

For walk-up fares there is no way to determine this from the data and I don't think I have ever been informed of any such restriction, using a variety of retail channels.

As for split ticketing; none of these changes makes it "harder" but the changes mean that there are even more journey opportunities for which customers will be offered cheaper fares on sites like Trainsplit.com than on websites limited to selling through fares only.

Someone at TPE must have shares in a fare splitting website or something; they've done an excellent job of increasing the prospects of such websites!

 

[LowLevel]

It appears from Monday TPE priced off peak tickets are changing as follows.

All unrestricted tickets 8A etc will be getting a time restriction on both legs to some varying degree.

All time restricted out/any train return tickets will have the same time restriction on both legs.

All tickets previously restricted by arrival time at destination will now be restricted with a time departing from origin.

The rationale is 'simplification' and to block passengers who like to buy off peak tickets and use the unrestricted return portion before the restricted outward portion, as well as to clamp down on other common fiddles.

Affected flows include Stockport to Sheffield and Manchester Stations to Liverpool Stations as examples.

 

[pdq]

There's a poster at Huddersfield Station which refers to peak/off peak changes from the beginning of next month. I'll try and get a shot of it next time I'm passing through - but this may not be until the end of next week.

As promised... Don't know why Tapatalk rotates it though.

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[yorksrob]

It will just make TPE even more overpriced and worth avoiding.

 

[yorkie]

It's a good job I recently upgraded my mobile data plan

Any chance you can reduce the size of the image please ? (There are many free applications that will do this)

Also bear in mind our blind members cannot read any text contained within images so if either a quote or a text alternative can be provided that would be greatly appreciated

 

[Merseysider]

pdq's image has been resized:

 

[TUC]

As much as I regret the change, it's difficult to say that a TOC is being unreasonable by saying that tickets called Off-Peak are not valid during the peak.