TPE Piccadilly staff not accepting cash payments

[Angmering1974]

A few times now I've arrived at Manchester Piccadilly and TPE staff have had various excuses why I can't pay with cash (usually it's the person with the float is on their break)

A couple of times I've used my card but another time I insisted to pay with cash and the guard let me through and asked me to go to the ticket office (which was quite busy. I did buy a ticket)

I'm curious about the rules here. Am I really obliged to queue up at the ticket office? Could I claim delay delay?

Anyone else had this experience with TPE at Piccadilly? Anyone know why cash is seemingly such an issue?

Thanks!

(Nb my departure station has no cash facilities, and staff onboard extremely rarely do ticket checks. When they do, they have similar excuses about not accepting cash. Arrival is my first opportunity to pay)

 

[island]

You will have a very difficult time claiming DelayRepay owing to long queues.

Whilst the railway is obliged to, and does, make arrangements for you to pay with cash, cash handling requirements and procedures mean that they're keeping the number of people with cash floats to a minimum.

 

[Angmering1974]

Just to clarify, I'm not compo/free-ride chasing. Delay Repay was more of a curiosity than anything.

Whilst the railway is obliged to, and does, make arrangements for you to pay with cash

Well, it seems to me that they haven't made sufficient arrangements, multiple times now. What are my obligations if they fail in theirs?

 

[AlterEgo]

You still have to buy a ticket even if it’s difficult or inconvenient. If it were me I’d be paying by card by now.

 

[Angmering1974]

OK. Having read the NRCoT now, I understand and accept that NRCoT includes "...at your destination" and fully accept the obligation to pay remains, and that paying at the ticket office at the destination is reasonable.

I still find it annoying that TPE are apparently unwilling to accept cash payments. It's been that way for some time on board – back when the guard used to leave the cab and do ticket checks anyway – the reason was always "sorry, left the cash in the cab".

Is there no obligation for staff on board to carry cash? Is it because they're not obliged to sell tickets at all?

 

[6Gman]

OK. Having read the NRCoT now, I understand and accept that NRCoT includes "...at your destination" and fully accept the obligation to pay remains, and that paying at the ticket office at the destination is reasonable.

I still find it annoying that TPE are apparently unwilling to accept cash payments. It's been that way for some time on board – back when the guard used to leave the cab and do ticket checks anyway – the reason was always "sorry, left the cash in the cab".

To which my answer would be "I'll walk back with you then and we can get it sorted" ...

 

[Haywain]

Is there no obligation for staff on board to carry cash?

There is an obligation for the railway to accept cash in payment for a ticket but not at every sales point. They are providing you with that opportunity as things stand.

 

[Djgr]

I think the "save our cash" battle is over and has been lost.

 

[transportphoto]

The most productive thing to do here is to put this to TPE and see what they say. Perhaps with a detailed list of occurrences? It may be that the company stance vs. reality are two different things.

 

[jamiearmley]

The TPE company stance is that all guards take cash on board without exception.

Definitely raise this with them.

 

[Angmering1974]

The TPE company stance is that all guards take cash on board without exception.

Definitely raise this with them.

That's useful to know, thanks! I'll be more proactive in the future and mention to the guard when getting on that I'd like to purchase a ticket.

 

[plugwash]

It's a while since I checked, but I think at least one of the TVMs outside the ticket office at picadilly also takes cash.

 

[SuspectUsual]

my departure station has no cash facilities

the reason was always "sorry, left the cash in the cab"

I wonder whether if your destination station also didn’t have cash facilities they’d suddenly have their cash with them

 

[Angmering1974]

It's a while since I checked, but I think at least one of the TVMs outside the ticket office at picadilly also takes cash.

I did wonder if they did, but I also didn't want to be prosecuted for fare evasion, so I followed his instructions to the letter and made a beeline directly for the ticket office as not to appear to be heading to the exit.

Good to know if I want to purchase a ticket from Piccadilly in the future though

 

[AlterEgo]

As an aside, it’s been a long time since we came across anyone prosecuted under RoRA for passing an opportunity to pay upon exit. TOCs lost interest in this and it mostly seems to be bylaw prosecutions now.

 

[reastreetmetro]

As far as I am concerned passengers should be allowed to pay in cash for their ticket and should not be punished for doing so.
If the station is unstaffed and the ticket machine is card-only then the conductor should be prepared to sell them a ticket.
The conductor should also be carrying out a ticket check, armed with a ticket machine and a cash float.
There are many reasons why a person would choose to pay in cash.
If we want to encourage people to choose the train over their car then we need to be nice to them and make it as easy as possible to give us their money- even if happens to be old fashioned hard cash.

 

[Hadders]

As far as I am concerned passengers should be allowed to pay in cash for their ticket and should not be punished for doing so.
If the station is unstaffed and the ticket machine is card-only then the conductor should be prepared to sell them a ticket.
The conductor should also be carrying out a ticket check, armed with a ticket machine and a cash float.
There are many reasons why a person would choose to pay in cash.
If we want to encourage people to choose the train over their car then we need to be nice to them and make it as easy as possible to give us their money- even if happens to be old fashioned hard cash.

Or pay at their destination.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Sadly within the guards' cohort there is a minority who consider "commercial duties" to be an imposition that they seek to avoid as much as possible. The most obvious manifestation is a refusal to check tickets after a particular time of the evening or ceasing such activity as soon as they have reached the supposed depot average for sales per shift even if this happens during the am peak.

Almost all large employers will have a number of staff members with a poor work ethic. The problem is compounded on the railway as train crew necessarily work without close supervision. If it bothers you as a customer then do report such incidents as they occur.

 

[dodecahedron67]

TPE Manchester Picc and Airport guards are not issued a ‘personal’ float and due to how much of a pain the paperwork is when they take cash I know many would rather not.

Personally I would rather not take cash as well, despite being at one of the ‘lucky’ depots that gets a personal float. As long as a guard is willing to let you pay at another point (whether that be gateline, ticket office; even just saying don’t worry about it, whatever) I don’t see the problem?

Also just a note - at TPE we are not revenue managed. There is no incentive to hit a ‘depot average’. We just get a flat rate of commission regardless of how much we take.

Cash is a pain for 99% of people and I would argue that for those who it is necessary for, they would be perfectly catered for by TOs and gatelines. Bring on card only onboard, we are in the 2020s not the 1980s as much as some people would like to think. Anecdotally I took over £600 on my shift today - so don’t go accusing me of being a lazy guard. £6 of that was cash. Less than 1%…

Those travelling between minor unstaffed stations and trying to pay in cash are almost always attempting free rides because they know they can get away with it…

 

[trainJam]

Related, but in West Mids some of the local station ticket offices struggle with change.

I have bought from the guard on cross city a few times (on NRCOT 6 with the machine not taking cash) and they have had the change.

Once, they just didn't want to sell tickets/said buy from Birmingham New Street [excess fares podium].

 

[Starmill]

What are my obligations if they fail in theirs?

Look at it this way. If there is a queue that takes 15 minutes to get served at Manchester Piccadilly, which I find extremely difficult to believe you've experienced, although I accept it's certainly not impossible, then technically they've still done you a favour, assuming you didn't arrive with 15 minutes to spare on top of the time you needed to get to the platform for your train.

If they were accepting cash at your origin, your obligation is to wait in the queue to be served, or pay another way. It's possible they could authorise buying onboard and this was occasionally done for long queue times, but only rarely.

If you wish to pay cash you will need to accept that you're likely to experience queues and you may be slightly inconvenienced as a result, because there is a very, very good reason why the vast majority of people use pay as you go or buy their tickets online or in their smartphone app nowadays. You will still have some option to pay cash however for the foreseeable future.

Luckily for you there's currently no supplementary fee to pay in cash. This may change in the future.

 

[Angmering1974]

TPE Manchester Picc and Airport guards are not issued a ‘personal’ float and due to how much of a pain the paperwork is when they take cash I know many would rather not.

Personally I would rather not take cash as well, despite being at one of the ‘lucky’ depots that gets a personal float. As long as a guard is willing to let you pay at another point (whether that be gateline, ticket office; even just saying don’t worry about it, whatever) I don’t see the problem?

Also just a note - at TPE we are not revenue managed. There is no incentive to hit a ‘depot average’. We just get a flat rate of commission regardless of how much we take.

Cash is a pain for 99% of people and I would argue that for those who it is necessary for, they would be perfectly catered for by TOs and gatelines. Bring on card only onboard, we are in the 2020s not the 1980s as much as some people would like to think. Anecdotally I took over £600 on my shift today - so don’t go accusing me of being a lazy guard. £6 of that was cash. Less than 1%…

Those travelling between minor unstaffed stations and trying to pay in cash are almost always attempting free rides because they know they can get away with it…

Exactly the kind of response I expect from TPE staff haha.

Not a single recognition of the concerns of the customer, a veiled accusation of fare evasion, and thinking the public don't know about the "make something difficult then claim it's not used" strategy...

Anyway, I appreciate it's your employer making things difficult to take cash. Sorry you're caught in the middle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

Look at it this way. If there is a queue that takes 15 minutes to get served at Manchester Piccadilly, which I find extremely difficult to believe you've experienced, although I accept it's certainly not impossible, then technically they've still done you a favour, assuming you didn't arrive with 15 minutes to spare on top of the time you needed to get to the platform for your train.

I accept your point. But note I never mentioned 15 minutes and reads a little like you're saying I did.

 

[Starmill]

But note I never mentioned 15 minutes and reads a little like you're saying I did.

If the delay were less than 15 minutes any compensation due under Delay Repay would be a maximum of £0.

 

[Haywain]

But note I never mentioned 15 minutes and reads a little like you're saying I did.

You asked about Delay Repay though, and the minimum delay to qualify for that is 15 minutes.

 

[Starmill]

Cash is a pain for 99% of people and I would argue that for those who it is necessary for, they would be perfectly catered for by TOs and gatelines. Bring on card only onboard, we are in the 2020s not the 1980s as much as some people would like to think. Anecdotally I took over £600 on my shift today - so don’t go accusing me of being a lazy guard. £6 of that was cash. Less than 1%…

Belgian train conductors stopped accepting cash onboard the train over two years ago, as relatively little was being taken and the on train staff having to carry it around came with disproportionately increased risk of assault or theft, and greater potential for losses through dropping it, accounting errors and fraud.

Removing the option with a publicity blitz made the railway safer and lowered admin costs. Set against this some fare evasion now takes the form of offering the conductor cash and knowing they can't take it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

Not a single recognition of the concerns of the customer, a veiled accusation of fare evasion

I don't think the fare evasion point they made was a veiled accusation - you're clearly not travelling between two minor unstaffed stations.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Exactly the kind of response I expect from TPE staff haha.

Not a single recognition of the concerns of the customer, a veiled accusation of fare evasion, and thinking the public don't know about the "make something difficult then claim it's not used" strategy...

Woe betide anyone who points out it is less safe and bordering on pointless 99% of the time for us to be carrying around large amounts of cash.

My cash float never leaves my cab. Ever. I’m not putting myself in a position to be threatened over £50. If someone pays me by cash and needs change, I will go back to my cab, dump the money they’ve given me and then give them the change. If they can’t pay by card.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2025 ==

I don't think the fare evasion point they made was a veiled accusation - you're clearly not travelling between two minor unstaffed stations.

I’m definitely more on about people travelling Castleford - Normanton, Mossley - Greenfield, etc

 

[Angmering1974]

How many thefts of the cash were happening on TPE? I didn't realise it was such a problem!

"Woe betide"...a rather childish response. I think it's fair to say I'm listening to both sides of the argument here but the same can not be said of others.

I keep getting attacked about delay repay - I'm obviously branded a compo chaser and fare evader (why even mention it when it's off topic as I mentioned the station...?)

Thanks for another reinforcement to keep driving. Good work

 

[LowLevel]

How many thefts of the cash were happening on TPE? I didn't realise it was such a problem!

"Woe betide"...a rather childish response. I think it's fair to say I'm listening to both sides of the argument here but the same can not be said of others.

I keep getting attacked about delay repay - I'm obviously branded a compo chaser and fare evader (why even mention it when it's off topic as I mentioned the station...?)

Thanks for another reinforcement to keep driving. Good work

I'd surprised if it was an issue. I work fairly similar services through some pretty rough areas and I can think of about 2 attempted thefts of cash from a conductor in the last 15 years or so - one was an opportunist grab of a float from a cab which had been left unlocked when the door didn't slam and the other was a down and out just attempting to grab it.

We still have several routes where paying the guard cash is a common occurrence especially at weekends and I don't think twice about it - the days of paying in a grand of 20s after a trip are gone though!

Sounds to me more like not interested in the hassle of booking up (which I can understand but it's part of the job) than an actual inmediate risk in mind - we've never had our own float and it takes about 5 minutes to cash up and complete the paperwork for which we are paid.

 

[Haywain]

I keep getting attacked about delay repay

You are not being attacked but you must accept that the first mention of it was made by you.

 

[Wolfie]

Look at it this way. If there is a queue that takes 15 minutes to get served at Manchester Piccadilly, which I find extremely difficult to believe you've experienced, although I accept it's certainly not impossible, then technically they've still done you a favour, assuming you didn't arrive with 15 minutes to spare on top of the time you needed to get to the platform for your train.

If they were accepting cash at your origin, your obligation is to wait in the queue to be served, or pay another way. It's possible they could authorise buying onboard and this was occasionally done for long queue times, but only rarely.

If you wish to pay cash you will need to accept that you're likely to experience queues and you may be slightly inconvenienced as a result, because there is a very, very good reason why the vast majority of people use pay as you go or buy their tickets online or in their smartphone app nowadays. You will still have some option to pay cash however for the foreseeable future.

Luckily for you there's currently no supplementary fee to pay in cash. This may change in the future.

Given that it was made unlawful for businesses to charge additional fees for paying for goods or services by card, l hardly see a situation where businesses are permitted to do so for paying with cash being permitted.