TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[Clansman]

Oh I'm not counting on a 397 photograph any time soon, but apparently the first two-car 195 unit is due for completion and testing at Velim in around ten or eleven months' time. I still can't believe it's next year Northern and TransPennine Express are getting new trains, hopefully there'll be more new stock (for either franchise) to look forward to in the 2020s.

Testing of the Mk5s for Caledonian Sleeper in Velim commence in 3 months, yet not a single thing has been shown of the assembled carriages - even though the fleet as a whole being ordered over 2 years ago.

Agree with you about the 2020s, very exciting times indeed. It's about time we started seeing some rolling stock investment

 

[D6975]

Looking at the photo of the first shell and the drawing of the set, it's the window height that worries me. They look little better than a pendo, which I find make the coach rather claustrophobic. Hopefully they will have a much better internal 'feel' than the awful pendos.

I find Voyager windows OK, even though there isn't a huge difference to a pendo.

 

[68011]

I think that it is 9 that will be in the TPE livery but there will be a larger pool of locos that could be used (in DRS livery)

019-032 are going into TPE colours.
033 & 034 which will be the 'reserves' for TPE will be in DRS livery.

 

[Clansman]

Looking at the photo of the first shell and the drawing of the set, it's the window height that worries me. They look little better than a pendo, which I find make the coach rather claustrophobic. Hopefully they will have a much better internal 'feel' than the awful pendos.

The windows are obviously slightly angled inwards, which probably gives you that impression.

The mockups produced on behalf of Caledonian Sleeper for their Mk5s show the windows at a suitable height (ie not too high or low).

 

[route:oxford]

I find Voyager windows OK, even though there isn't a huge difference to a pendo.

Voyager windows must be near enough double the size of a Pendo window!

 

[Bornin1980s]

Do the windows look too high or too low.

 

[Clansman]

Here's how the windows look on the interior. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Voyager windows must be near enough double the size of a Pendo window!

Voyagers have *massive* windows. Biggest on the network.

The seats (other than in the old hybrid coach) aren't aligned with them, but that's a design issue unrelated to the actual windows, and easily rectified with a couple of workers, half a day and a spanner.

 

[GrimShady]

Will these be 125mph units to fit in with the WCML operation? Im assuming this is one of the reasons the loco hauled stock wont be used for the long haul Scottish routes.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Front end lighting there have been countless times I have been bombing down the ECML and a good 4-6 miles behind me I can clearly see the headlights of the voyager/186/yingying following me. They really dont need yellow front ends but no dount retain them simply because it complies with the group standards in force at the time of introduction. In contrast 225s are very difficult to see but their yellow front ends are what is usually first seen

 

[gimmea50anyday]

As for the livery/operational management wibble, if BMI Flyer is who I suspect he is, he is a very well respected and popular operational (not people) manager who leads by experience and knows what he is talking about. We could do with more people like him in control! XD

(And if its not him, well lets just clear up the fact operational management arent the people that run the company. They are the ones often digging the companies out of the **** when the job has gone tits up!)

 

[NotATrainspott]

Will these be 125mph units to fit in with the WCML operation? Im assuming this is one of the reasons the loco hauled stock wont be used for the long haul Scottish routes.

The carriages will be capable of 125mph - presumably because there is no reason why they shouldn't be - but they'll be limited to 100mph by the locomotives (68s and maybe later 88s) that will haul them. There are enough 100mph only routes on the TPE network for that not to be a problem. The 802s will end up running the services that spend the longest time at 125mph on the ECML.

 

[BMIFlyer]

What modification has been done to the 185/350 headlights to meet the latest standards?

The class 185s have the new group standard high intensity headlamps already - it was noted that when they first came into service that drivers of other trains complained how bright they were to such an extent that they were being dazzled by 185s approaching them.

The 185 headlamps are actually brighter than any other new passenger train introduced to the UK in the past few years - compare a voyager and 185 front end view side by side with the headlamps illuminated to see what I mean.

I have sat in the front cab of a 185 many times looking at the track at night and you can see the difference immediately - it's like having a super bright torch - compared to a 170 for example which I have also viewed the same track from.

At the time the 185s were introduced the group standard was high intensity headlamps (day and night) plus a portion of yellow warning panel on the front of the train - the standard has been updated to remove the warning panel requirement for trains built after a certain date - or fitted with the required headlamps.

Trains with the new lamps that require the panel removal have to go through RSSB paperwork for that to be authorised and implemented.

 

[edwin_m]

Do trains that are exempted from yellow panels have to have both headlights lit or does the current day/night arrangement continue?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Do trains that are exempted from yellow panels have to have both headlights lit or does the current day/night arrangement continue?

Day and night can continue. The 185's have very bright individual headlamps to such an extent that if the night one fails at night you can still use the day one.

 

[Domh245]

Do trains that are exempted from yellow panels have to have both headlights lit or does the current day/night arrangement continue?

The relevant standard (GM/RT2131) says that day time running mode should have "1 or 2 'Full Beam' head lamps with a total of 3 white front end lights in a triangle arrangement as defined in the OPE TIS, the remainder being marker lamps" whilst night time running is "2 'Dimmed' head lamps and one top marker lamp) so whilst the current day time running mode could be used, there would have to be some modification to the night time mode (plus a way of varying the brightness between full beam and dimmed)

 

[BMIFlyer]

Here's the full document.

It also explains in detail what I posted earlier about the need to carry out paperwork to change the front end colour of a train (remove the yellow warning) - criteria has to be met including the reliability and brightness of the headlamps.

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131 Iss 1.pdf

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Which of course costs mony and time! Makes sense therefore to keep the yellow on existing trains and sabe the hassle of re-certifying group standards.

 

[03_179]

Anyone have an idea of the routes they will be covering and roughly what services these will be?

Looking to make a few loose plans on possible trips I can make on them (maximum mileages and minimal fuss).

I know it's quite far in advance but travelling up from Surrey takes planning LOL.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Anyone have an idea of the routes they will be covering and roughly what services these will be?

Looking to make a few loose plans on possible trips I can make on them (maximum mileages and minimal fuss).

I know it's quite far in advance but travelling up from Surrey takes planning LOL.

They won't be operating for a good while yet. The plan is that they will run the Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street services (once re-routed via chat moss) and the Manchester Piccadilly to Middlesbrough service via the chord. Both will be hourly.

But the way things keep changing i would treat that with a massive pinch of salt. Infact my knowledge could well be out of date already.

 

[absolutelymilk]

They won't be operating for a good while yet.

Any idea when in 2018 they are supposed to come into service, or when they will begin testing?

 

[MatthewRead]

Any idea when in 2018 they are supposed to come into service, or when they will begin testing?

Early spring

 

[absolutelymilk]

Early spring

For service?

 

[MatthewRead]

For service?

Yes that's right

 

[absolutelymilk]

Yes that's right

Thanks!

 

[sprinterguy]

They won't be operating for a good while yet. The plan is that they will run the Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street services (once re-routed via chat moss) and the Manchester Piccadilly to Middlesbrough service via the chord. Both will be hourly.

That's still the eventual plan, but they will initially be introduced on the hourly Newcastle - Liverpool service:

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...oduction-of-transpennine-express-coaches.html
These trains will be delivered in 2018 and will initially be deployed on the Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Newcastle route replacing three-car class 185 DMUs. However, with the delivery of 19 five-car Hitachi class 802 bi-mode trains for this route in 2019, the locomotive-hauled sets will be redeployed on Liverpool - Scarborough and Manchester Airport - Middlesbrough services.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That's still the eventual plan, but they will initially be introduced on the hourly Newcastle - Liverpool service:

I thought the initial plan had now been scrapped?

 

[43096]

I thought the initial plan had now been scrapped?

That is my understanding too. TPE looked at it again and decided that training Newcastle crews on the Mark 5s for a short period of use wasn't worth it.

 

[scarby]

According to the Railways Illustrated 'Rumour Mill', TPE has indicated that it will hire the Pretendolino coaches from September - initially for crew training and then formed into 2 rakes of 5 with DVTs - passenger services using this stock will begin in December (2017).

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I can confirm Newcastle crews will not sign the mk5 as they will be deployed on MIA-MBR and LIV-SCA workings.