TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[E_Reeves]

It's nights tomorrow night to Bletchley and back.

2150 to Bletchley?

 

[Ben Bow]

Given that the fault free running hasn't started yet, and that testing is still ongoing, any entry to service dates given are "aspirational" rather than set in stone. The whole project has seen target dates come and go regularly. Building work on the depot at Scarborough has barely started, for example.

 

[coxxy]

Today’s update:

New brake valves have cured the sudden stop issue below 8mph.

CAF are happy with this but more testing is required just to be sure, hence the test runs back on in earnest.

Should be some test runs on the North route ‘soon’ to see how the full sets perform over the hills (shouldn’t be any issues with that compared to a 185 either).

Can’t say more even though I have more info about other stuff (current planned further crew training and then fleet coming into service dates were talked about but it’s not my job to disclose and certainly not on here).

Sounds like a very promising update!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Given that the fault free running hasn't started yet, and that testing is still ongoing, any entry to service dates given are "aspirational" rather than set in stone. The whole project has seen target dates come and go regularly. Building work on the depot at Scarborough has barely started, for example.

The first set reportedly has to do 4500 miles fault free before it is accepted. Considering a major fault was discovered before fault free running even commenced I share your scepticism.

 

[InOban]

4500 mike's? That's a lot longer than I have read for other new trains. I'm sure I read for the 385s it was 2500 km.

 

[DunfordBridge]

They're sections of route for the planning department. They appear on the dockets but they are meaningless to train crew.

Meaningless to most people, I would have thought.

 

[Jonny]

Given that the fault free running hasn't started yet, and that testing is still ongoing, any entry to service dates given are "aspirational" rather than set in stone. The whole project has seen target dates come and go regularly. Building work on the depot at Scarborough has barely started, for example.

The first set reportedly has to do 4500 miles fault free before it is accepted. Considering a major fault was discovered before fault free running even commenced I share your scepticism.

A couple of questions:

What is the difference between testing and designated fault-free running (other than the need to accumulate fault-free mileage in the latter)?

Could a test run count towards fault-free mileage if the train operates properly over the required distance?

 

[mikemcniven]

Looks like a NOVA 3 is due out tonight, down to Bletchley and Back. Gone onto the system as VSTP (Very Short Term Planning)

3B01 2150 MID to Bletchley: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O65771/2018/12/13/advanced

3H02 0110 Bletchley to MID: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O65898/2018/12/14/advanced

 

[BMIFlyer]

Office of Road and Rail has now approved the MK5A sets for use, meaning test runs on the core route can begin.

 

[mikemcniven]

Paths in for Monday Night (Monday - Tuesday) for Manchester International Depot - Manchester Airport - Piccadilly - Airport and so on

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03930/2018/12/17/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03931/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03932/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03933/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03934/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03935/2018/12/18/advanced

Also a single path in for heading to Liverpool Lime Street on Tuesday night (Tuesday - Wednesday) No follow on paths in yet from Lime Street
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03928/2018/12/18/advanced

 

[CAF397]

Great news.

 

[greyman42]

Paths in for Monday Night (Monday - Tuesday) for Manchester International Depot - Manchester Airport - Piccadilly - Airport and so on

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03930/2018/12/17/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03931/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03932/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03933/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03934/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03935/2018/12/18/advanced

Are these carrying passengers?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Are these carrying passengers?

No, the trains are still being tested.

I mentioned that above.

 

[59CosG95]

Indirectly related to the Mk5a stock: TPE no. 68030 has now been named "Black Douglas" without ceremony at Crewe Gresty Bridge, continuing the trend of 68s bearing the same nameplate as their "numbersake" (if you'll pardon the vernacular) in the Class 87 range; 87030 last carried the name.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Indirectly related to the Mk5a stock: TPE no. 68030 has now been named "Black Douglas" without ceremony at Crewe Gresty Bridge, continuing the trend of 68s bearing the same nameplate as their "numbersake" (if you'll pardon the vernacular) in the Class 87 range; 87030 last carried the name.

The vernacular is fine! I'd like to see 68034 as "Pride in Huddersfield" (previously carried by 47434).

 

[_toommm_]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O66841/2018/12/15/advanced

Looks like a 68 light loco move this evening

 

[TRAX]

A couple of questions:

What is the difference between testing and designated fault-free running (other than the need to accumulate fault-free mileage in the latter)?

Could a test run count towards fault-free mileage if the train operates properly over the required distance?

Testing involves much more than just running. One aspect of testing can be voluntarily ´creating’ issues on the train, which in itself is the complete opposite of ‘fault-free running’.

 

[Dunnyrail]

Paths in for Monday Night (Monday - Tuesday) for Manchester International Depot - Manchester Airport - Piccadilly - Airport and so on

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03930/2018/12/17/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03931/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03932/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03933/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03934/2018/12/18/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03935/2018/12/18/advanced

Also a single path in for heading to Liverpool Lime Street on Tuesday night (Tuesday - Wednesday) No follow on paths in yet from Lime Street
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03928/2018/12/18/advanced

Good to see that testing for Fault Free has started, but with those limited distances except for the Liverpool run 4500 miles will take a while. But I expect that there will soon be a Scarborough and return or two which should start to ramp up the miles nicely.

 

[SP Man]

Good to see that testing for Fault Free has started, but with those limited distances except for the Liverpool run 4500 miles will take a while. But I expect that there will soon be a Scarborough and return or two which should start to ramp up the miles nicely.

Fault free testing has not started, these are Customer specific testing aimed to check stop boards, stepping heights, ramp heights, etc.

 

[Dunnyrail]

Fault free testing has not started, these are Customer specific testing aimed to check stop boards, stepping heights, ramp heights, etc.

Oh my mistake, I took post 1869 and the turns listed in the next post to mean that these would be the start of such testing. Perhaps someone ‘in the know’ can say when that particular clock is running?

 

[AndrewE]

The first set reportedly has to do 4500 miles fault free before it is accepted.

Fault free testing has not started...

I reckon that Manchester - Bletchley - Carlisle -Bletchley- Manchester is about 840 miles, so 4500 miles is a bit more than 5 of those trips... Doing one a night could almost get it sorted in a week, that's if drivers are available. I suppose as they are ECS then freight drivers could be hired, also no guards would be needed, but I imagine someone technical or otherwise able to report on the customer experience will be needed. Being optimistic, can we hope for one in service within a couple of months (assuming the technical glitches have been sorted now)?
How much pre-service running will the subsequent sets have to do?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Fault free testing has not started, these are Customer specific testing aimed to check stop boards, stepping heights, ramp heights, etc.

ASDO as well.

 

[87015]

The vernacular is fine! I'd like to see 68034 as "Pride in Huddersfield" (previously carried by 47434).

The 2019 version is no doubt "Felix the Huddersfield cat" - close enough?

 

[Bertie the bus]

I reckon that Manchester - Bletchley - Carlisle -Bletchley- Manchester is about 840 miles, so 4500 miles is a bit more than 5 of those trips... Doing one a night could almost get it sorted in a week, that's if drivers are available.

They could but that is no guarantee they will. There is a huge amount of rose tinted specs stuff on this forum. This could happen or that could happen. Could doesn’t mean will.

I wouldn’t expect any of the people who are involved in the project who contribute to this thread to comment but I expect they were pretty surprised that a train that has undergone months of testing at Velim had braking problems when tested over here. That isn’t a good omen but we can only hope it is an isolated issue and others don’t crop up.

 

[Greybeard33]

There's now going to be longer turnarounds at the Airport too, also enabling services not be be terminated at Victoria or Pic - although PPM will still struggle given the Oxford Road corridor.

A temporary fix as they are mixing the Middlesbrough and Newcastle diagrams up, which of course once the new trains come in can’t happen as 68s aren’t going to Newcastle and 802s aren’t going to Middlesbrough.

Looking at Manchester Airport platform allocations since the timetable change (see e.g. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/MIA/2018/12/14/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt), it can be seen that the 40 minute turnrounds are being squeezed in by platform double occupancy. Another train comes in behind the 185 and departs first. But the Airport platforms are only 200m long, so a Mk5A set or 802 will need a whole platform to itself. This means it will be necessary to go back to 10 minute turnrounds as and when the new trains are introduced on the Airport services.

It appears TPE is "between a rock and a hard place". Either keep using overcrowded 3-car 185s with long turnrounds, or risk PPM nosediving again when the Mk5As start running to the Airport.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Looking at Manchester Airport platform allocations since the timetable change (see e.g. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/MIA/2018/12/14/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt), it can be seen that the 40 minute turnrounds are being squeezed in by platform double occupancy. Another train comes in behind the 185 and departs first. But the Airport platforms are only 200m long, so a Mk5A set or 802 will need a whole platform to itself. This means it will be necessary to go back to 10 minute turnrounds as and when the new trains are introduced on the Airport services.

It appears TPE is "between a rock and a hard place". Either keep using overcrowded 3-car 185s with long turnrounds, or risk PPM nosediving again when the Mk5As start running to the Airport.

You could have a Mk5A set and a class 156 on platform 4 if necessary.

 

[driver9000]

You could have a Mk5A set and a class 156 on platform 4 if necessary.

The Local instruction for the Airport says that if a train more than 4 vehicles in length is in the platform then another train can't be signalled into it. It doesn't say platform 4 is exempt from that.

 

[SP Man]

Oh my mistake, I took post 1869 and the turns listed in the next post to mean that these would be the start of such testing. Perhaps someone ‘in the know’ can say when that particular clock is running?

It's not started on any of the sets yet, a couple of issues being sorted. Some tests at Velim would not show up issues becsuaexof what it does there (A lot of slow speed is done by being dragged around and the running and braking doesn't fully show up actual braking). I doubt it will not be long before a couple of the sets (6+9) will be ready to start FFR. Only the first 1 or 2 need the 4500 miles.

 

[BMIFlyer]

The Local instruction for the Airport says that if a train more than 4 vehicles in length is in the platform then another train can't be signalled into it. It doesn't say platform 4 is exempt from that.

Ah yes. Pity.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

With a uniform fleet, TPE could at least interwork the diagrams to optimise the layover at the Airport.
But with 3 different types of route-specific 5-car stock using it, plus probably 6-car TP South workings with 185s, there's no chance of doing that.