TPE franchise awarded to First

[Senex]

The only reference I can see about stops on the new TPE Newcastle-Edinburgh services is to hourly calls at Morpeth. And not until December 2019.

That's certainly all that I could see too, and it made me wonder if the idea is to provide Leeds with a genuine second fast service to Edinburgh every hour (alongside the XC service) rather than to use the TPE services as semi-fasts.

 

[racklam]

That's certainly all that I could see too, and it made me wonder if the idea is to provide Leeds with a genuine second fast service to Edinburgh every hour (alongside the XC service) rather than to use the TPE services as semi-fasts.

How much time does it take to stop at Dunbar as opposed to passing through at line speed?

 

[NotATrainspott]

How much time does it take to stop at Dunbar as opposed to passing through at line speed?

As there is only one platform, in the Edinburgh-bound direction the big problem is pathing, as you have to cross the London-bound track twice.

 

[thealexweb]

Could this rectify some worries?

http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/13654142.Second_platform_at_Dunbar_Railway_Station_mooted/

 

[northwichcat]

TPE Customer Services Director Kathryn O’Brien has been quoted in Rail as saying most Manchester to Sheffield services will be formed of 6 carriages. Whether that involves splitting/joining units at Sheffield/Doncaster is unclear.

 

[po8crg]

I'm picking through this MEN article and there seem to be some new announcements in there:

A promise of 13 new destinations from Manchester including St Helens from 2017 and Morpeth from 2019 - both hourly.

There will be cheaper fares for 16-18 year-olds and for job seekers. You’ll be able to get season tickets on direct debit, with the ability to buy Anglo-Scottish tickets 26 weeks in advance. There will be automatic delay compensation for registers customers.

A media server will allow passengers to screen movies and TV shows for free on their tablets and iphones.

I think St Helens via TPE from Manchester is wrong - that's presumably the Liverpool-Glasgow service via St Helens Central.

 

[northwichcat]

I think St Helens via TPE from Manchester is wrong - that's presumably the Liverpool-Glasgow service via St Helens Central.

St Helens Junction will be a calling point on Liverpool-Scarborough once it's diverted via Chat Moss and Victoria.

The Liverpool-Newcastle will continue to be non-stop between Liverpool and Manchester and will get extended to Edinburgh.

 

[po8crg]

St Helens Junction will be a calling point on Liverpool-Scarborough once it's diverted via Chat Moss and Victoria.

The Liverpool-Newcastle will continue to be non-stop between Liverpool and Manchester and will get extended to Edinburgh.

Well, yes, but St Helens Junction isn't a new destination from Manchester! Trains from Manchester have called there since the station opened in 1833.

 

[Masbroughlad]

MEN article also mentions 125mph trains cast off from other franchises...... What's all that about then?

 

[northwichcat]

MEN article also mentions 125mph trains cast off from other franchises...... What's all that about then?

Possibly something temporary due to the remaining 170s leaving in July?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Purely speculation - 180's have been mentioned. However, the IEP's arent ready for service and wont be by july so theres little prospect of releasing the 180's.

HST's are a possibility. They are the only other 125mph traction in this country, however again the IEP's arent yet available for VTEC so therefore the HST's cant be released.

442's have been mentioned and much has been said about them in this forum, both good and bad. They are however now being released and would be available. With both 67's and 68's available to pull them there has been genuinely serious internal considerations of their use and DRS has been suggested internally as the haulage traction provider. These could potentially sustain 110mph running on the ECML. Nick Donovan told me that during the 3 peaks challenge. However, realistically the modifications required and clumsiness of operations may well render them impractical to use.

319's are now being released from GTR. Moving to northern would start a cascade of 156's which could release 158's which themselves could free up 185's destined for northern connect to remain with TPE for now until the new TPX units are built, or the 158's could make reappearances on LIV-SCA services (TPE Scarborough crews sign 158's anyway)

In all cases however there is a significant lead time, employment of the pretendolino has also therefore been suggested to free up 2 185's from the scottish route, but again, theres no guarantee GA will have finished using it in time. Coupled to an 88 or a 90 theres no reason however why this cant run at 110. Problem is we still dont have any 88's!

Internally however, very little has been said, and with just 6 weeks to go before handover, the lack of communication isn't doing staff morale any good at all.

 

[Haydn1971]

125mph cast offs ? For Manchester - Scotland ? Under wires ? A Class 91 hauling six carriages up the WCML perhaps ?

 

[43074]

125mph cast offs ? For Manchester - Scotland ? Under wires ? A Class 91 hauling six carriages up the WCML perhaps ?

The '225s' won't become available within the timescales FTPE would require them, first 225s aren't free by 2019 by which time TPE will have a significant proportion of their new fleet.

 

[Haydn1971]

The '225s' won't become available within the timescales FTPE would require them, first 225s aren't free by 2019 by which time TPE will have a significant proportion of their new fleet.

The 801's start in passenger service in 2017, even at a rate of two 801's a month being brought into passenger service, six 225 sets would be available by late 2017 at the latest.

 

[43074]

The 801's start in passenger service in 2017, even at a rate of two 801's a month being brought into passenger service, six 225 sets would be available by late 2017 at the latest.

But by late 2017 TPE will already have the first of their new fleet, the time-scales we're talking about are immediate (i.e. the next few months) rather than a year or more down the line.

Also the 2017 date was for the Great Western sets - so what will happen with those before electrification to Bristol/Cardiff/Swansea is complete is a bit of an unknown at the moment; it may be that they see initial service on the ECML, but given Virgin have specified different buffet and kitchen facilities on their sets it seems unlikely they would want to take any of the Great Western sets even short term.

 

[sprinterguy]

The 801's start in passenger service in 2017, even at a rate of two 801's a month being brought into passenger service, six 225 sets would be available by late 2017 at the latest.

The first IEP set for 225 replacement isn't due to be accepted until late May 2019. As 43074 says, TPEs new trains start entering service from late 2017.

If the Transpennine Express franchise was looking for cascaded stock for the interim then it would really have to be available before the end of this year for them to get any sort of use out of it. I think that it's more likely that the MEN have got their wires a bit crossed somewhere.

 

[Haydn1971]

But by late 2017 TPE will already have the first of their new fleet, the time-scales we're talking about are immediate (i.e. the next few months) rather than a year or more down the line.

Says who ? It's sounding like TPE won't be getting new EMU's for its existing electric services... I.e. Manchester Airport to Glasgow

Also the 2017 date was for the Great Western sets - so what will happen with those before electrification to Bristol/Cardiff/Swansea is complete is a bit of an unknown at the moment; it may be that they see initial service on the ECML, but given Virgin have specified different buffet and kitchen facilities on their sets it seems unlikely they would want to take any of the Great Western sets even short term.

Ok, so 2018 on ECML, that's still well within the TPE franchise - like I've said elsewhere, the 225's are still useful, post 2019, the HST's aren't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Says who ? It's sounding like TPE won't be getting new EMU's for its existing electric services... I.e. Manchester Airport to Glasgow

I was pretty sure they were, and the 350s were going to (most likely) LM.

 

[Haydn1971]

The first IEP set for 225 replacement isn't due to be accepted until late May 2019. As 43074 says, TPEs new trains start entering service from late 2017.

What have the new trains have to do with this ? It's been said that 44x5 car units will be new, then there's cascaded 125mph units from elsewhere.

If the Transpennine Express franchise was looking for cascaded stock for the interim then it would really have to be available before the end of this year for them to get any sort of use out of it. I think that it's more likely that the MEN have got their wires a bit crossed somewhere.

There isn't anything to cascade that's capable of 125mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was pretty sure they were, and the 350s were going to (most likely) LM.

That was originally reported, but the recent news this week is suggesting they won't be.

 

[43074]

Says who ? It's sounding like TPE won't be getting new EMU's for its existing electric services... I.e. Manchester Airport to Glasgow

This timeline shows TPE will receive the first of its new trains by late 2017:

End of 2017
New Trains
TransPennine Express franchise: New trains start to enter service

Ok, so 2018 on ECML, that's still well withithe TPE franchise - like I've said elsewhere, the 225's are still useful, post 2019, the HST's aren't.

The 225s have been hammered by 30 years of intensive high speed use by all accounts and have always had reliability issues. There are no obvious options for redeployment either.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 801's start in passenger service in 2017, even at a rate of two 801's a month being brought into passenger service, six 225 sets would be available by late 2017 at the latest.

The first batch of 80x replaces VTEC's HSTs, not the 225s.
They are also not due until 2018.

 

[sprinterguy]

What have the new trains have to do with this ? It's been said that 44x5 car units will be new, then there's cascaded 125mph units from elsewhere.

As I've mentioned on the TPE thread within the rolling stock sub-forum, with 19 new Bi-mode trains for TPE North Newcastle and Edinburgh services, another 13 for TPE North services to Middlesbrough and Scarborough and 12 new EMUs for WCML Manchester/Liverpool - Edinburgh/Glasgow services, I can't see where the Transpennine franchise has a need for additional 125mph stock.

There isn't anything to cascade that's capable of 125mph

Exactly my point.

That was originally reported, but the recent news this week is suggesting they won't be.

Reported where? The latest news and rumour I've seen suggests that the contract for the new EMUs is being arranged separate to the deal for Bi-mode units for TPE North. Nothing to do with a part of the order being dropped.

 

[northwichcat]

But by late 2017 TPE will already have the first of their new fleet, the time-scales we're talking about are immediate (i.e. the next few months) rather than a year or more down the line.

Also the 2017 date was for the Great Western sets - so what will happen with those before electrification to Bristol/Cardiff/Swansea is complete is a bit of an unknown at the moment; it may be that they see initial service on the ECML, but given Virgin have specified different buffet and kitchen facilities on their sets it seems unlikely they would want to take any of the Great Western sets even short term.

It's possible an add on order for TPE could jump to the front of the queue delaying the GWR sets.

Regarding existing Intercity sets is the Pretendolino still available?

 

[Iskra]

It's possible an add on order for TPE could jump to the front of the queue delaying the GWR sets.

Regarding existing Intercity sets is the Pretendolino still available?

The Pretendolino rake is covering for the refurbishment of AGA MK3s out of Crown Point.

 

[Haydn1971]

This timeline shows TPE will receive the first of its new trains by late 2017:.

At risk of repeating myself, the new trains will be bi-modes, it's been reported this week that TPE will also get cascaded 125mph trains - these could be 180's or 125's but given its an electrified line, they could be 225's too.

The 225s have been hammered by 30 years of intensive high speed use by all accounts and have always had reliability issues. There are no obvious options for redeployment either.

That's not stopped TOC's using 125's that are older
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Reported where? The latest news and rumour I've seen suggests that the contract for the new EMUs is being arranged separate to the deal for Bi-mode units for TPE North. Nothing to do with a part of the order being dropped.

Manchester Evening News...

BRAND NEW FASTER TRAINS

They will provide 44 new intercity trains with 220 new carriages by 2019, some capable of reaching 125mph.

AND A FACELIFT FOR OLDER TRAINS

Their existing ‘class 185’ trains will get a £27 million revamp to restore them to as-new standards. We will also get 125mph renovated cast-offs from elsewhere in the country.

 

[sprinterguy]

At risk of repeating myself, the new trains will be bi-modes, it's been reported this week that TPE will also get cascaded 125mph trains - these could be 180's or 125's but given its an electrified line, they could be 225's too.

12 of the new trains, specifically stated to be for WCML services, will be pure EMUs. Unless you know different, only one non-industry online news site has reported 125mph capable cascaded trains from other areas of the country being received by the Transpennine franchise.

Four of the Great Western 180s are set to be leased by Grand Central after December 2016, but sub-leased back to the Great Western franchise until such time as sufficient IEP sets have been delivered, leaving only one set up for grabs. Similarly, the first HST sets will not be going off-lease until late 2017 at the earliest, subject to the availability of IEP trains.

To repeat myself, 225s do not become available until mid 2019 at the earliest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Manchester Evening News...

Yes, exactly as I said. One non-industry news site, whom I suspect it more likely to have gotten their wires crossed on this matter.

 

[northwichcat]

Looking at the MEN article again I think they've got Northern and TPE mixed up and then mixed it up further. Northern are waiting for Scotrail to get 125mph cast offs so they can get some of the released DMUs.

 

[Whistler40145]

You can always guarantee the press to get things messed up!

 

[sprinterguy]

Looking at the MEN article again I think they've got Northern and TPE mixed up and then mixed it up further.

That certainly seems more probable.

 

[Whistler40145]

IMHO 225 sets are more suitable for an InterCity long distance service, which doesn't include Arriva Northern or First Transpennine Express, could they be used on the GEML?