TPE Emergency Timetable

[tpjm]

Lots of discussion on here about how Northern, West Mids and TPE are struggling to run a service with a decent level of PPM at the moment, but not so much talk about what could be done to help TPE and Northern.

Specifically, I’m thinking about what could be done as a short-term, temporary measure. This is not a discussion to ‘stop using the Ordsall Chord’ or to vent about other timetabling concerns as these already have the appropriate threads.

It’s very clear that TPE are currently short of crew and in some cases, rolling stock. The current temporary amendments are not offsetting this resource deficiency as there are still issues with the service delivery. Could the current Dec ‘19 timetable be fettled further to ensure greater reliability? If so, how?

Suggestions should be realistic and likely to be met with approval by the powers that be in the North. For example, if you’re removing frequency, explain how you’d ensure capacity remained the same.

I’ll let someone else start the appropriate Northern thread!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Specifically, I’m thinking about what could be done as a short-term, temporary measure. This is not a discussion to ‘stop using the Ordsall Chord’ or to vent about other timetabling concerns as these already have the appropriate threads.

Remove Liverpool-Scotland via the WCML, these are infrequent extras which are not essential and have barely operated anyway.
Remove Newcastle-Edinburgh, there are plenty of XC and LNER services. Ticket acceptance at TPE's cost for anyone who has already booked.
Don't run between Piccadilly and the Airport on the main trainshed services and step up.
If feasible, terminate one or both Ordsall services at Victoria (sorry, but it is something that could be done short term).

 

[JonathanH]

I think it is relatively straightforward - plan around the following services running in full but split up to enable longer trains on part of the journey - eg between Leeds and Manchester - but avoiding the need to couple / uncouple at the extremities.

Liverpool to Manchester Victoria - 1tph
Manchester Victoria to Leeds (platform 15) - 2tph but with 6-185
Leeds to Hull - 1tph
Manchester Piccadilly to Huddersfield stopper - 1tph
Huddersfield to Leeds stopper - 1tph
Leeds to Newcastle - 1tph with 802 or 6-185
York to Middlesborough - 1tph
York to Scarborough - 1tph
Manchester Piccadilly to Cleethorpes - 1tph

Then work out what else can run on top of that - eg could an extra Manchester Piccadilly to Huddersfield train run to enable connections to the Airport at Piccadilly.

Run to the Airport at the ends of the day only - rely on connections at all other times.

 

[randyrippley]

I think it is relatively straightforward - plan around the following services running in full but split up to enable longer trains on part of the journey - eg between Leeds and Manchester - but avoiding the need to couple / uncouple at the extremities.

Liverpool to Manchester Victoria - 1tph
Manchester Victoria to Leeds (platform 15) - 2tph but with 6-185
Leeds to Hull - 1tph
Manchester Piccadilly to Huddersfield stopper - 1tph
Huddersfield to Leeds stopper - 1tph
Leeds to Newcastle - 1tph with 802 or 6-185
York to Middlesborough - 1tph
York to Scarborough - 1tph
Manchester Piccadilly to Cleethorpes - 1tph

Then work out what else can run on top of that - eg could an extra Manchester Piccadilly to Huddersfield train run to enable connections to the Airport at Piccadilly.

Run to the Airport at the ends of the day only - rely on connections at all other times.

So the routes to Preston and northwards will be binned?
I think you have your priorities wrong. Would be better service to get the west facing traffic sorted first then make the transpennine stuff fit around that

 

[JonathanH]

So the routes to Preston and northwards will be binned?
I think you have your priorities wrong. Would be better service to get the west facing traffic sorted first then make the transpennine stuff fit around that

No, I was only considering the cross-pennine operation.

Not sure what you do about the Anglo-Scottish West side workings - 1tp2h means you only serve one out of Glasgow and Edinburgh. But apart from Lockerbie and some local connections between the three stations between Preston and Carlisle, does it really matter if there is no TPE service on the West side?

 

[randyrippley]

No, I was only considering the cross-pennine operation.

Not sure what you do about the Anglo-Scottish West side workings - 1tp2h means you only serve one out of Glasgow and Edinburgh. But apart from Lockerbie and some local connections between the three stations between Preston and Carlisle, does it really matter if there is no TPE service on the West side?

Yes it does because there's a heck of a lot of traffic from the NW into Manchester. I'd argue it doesn't need direct services to the airport, but the TPE service into the city IS needed. Changing at Preston to a Northern service is too slow.
Personally I'd say retaining the full NW service is more important than transpennine services, which could just be handled by Manchester-Leeds shuttles. Manchester as a city is mainly westward facing to Lancashire, not eastward to Yorkshire

 

[JonathanH]

Yes it does because there's a heck of a lot of traffic from the NW into Manchester. I'd argue it doesn't need direct services to the airport, but the TPE service into the city IS needed. Changing at Preston to a Northern service is too slow.
Personally I'd say retaining the full NW service is more important than transpennine services, which could just be handled by Manchester-Leeds shuttles. Manchester as a city is mainly westward facing to Lancashire, not eastward to Yorkshire

How do the crew diagrams work? Are the TPE west side services run using a completely different set of traincrew (eg Preston, Glasgow) from everything that goes over the Pennines or is it a matter of being able to dedicate crew to the Anglo-Scottish services by replicating them from other routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So the routes to Preston and northwards will be binned?
I think you have your priorities wrong. Would be better service to get the west facing traffic sorted first then make the transpennine stuff fit around that

It might not be an utterly terrible idea to curtail the Scottish services to Carlisle on a temporary basis?

 

[Philip]

Using 6-coach 185 formations for most as well as the few Novas that are in service, run Manchester Piccadilly to York shuttles on an every 15 minute frequency; three 'fast' and one 'semi-fast', with one per hour continuing to Manchester Airport. Then separately Victoria-Huddersfield and Huddersfield-Leeds stopping services with mainly single 185s.

Then run separate half-hourly shuttle service between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria, using mixture of single and double 185 formations.

Finally, use spare 185s from the reduction in frequency and shorter journeys to ensure 6-coach running on the South route during the day and use doubled up 185s to replace the remaining 350 diagrams on the Scottish services.

Leave Cross Country, Northern and LNER to cover for the local and long distance services in the east and North East.

 

[Failed Unit]

Remove Liverpool-Scotland via the WCML, these are infrequent extras which are not essential and have barely operated anyway.
Remove Newcastle-Edinburgh, there are plenty of XC and LNER services. Ticket acceptance at TPE's cost for anyone who has already booked.
Don't run between Piccadilly and the Airport on the main trainshed services and step up.
If feasible, terminate one or both Ordsall services at Victoria (sorry, but it is something that could be done short term).

I would agree but probably turn one of the services heading to Newcastle at York. Newcastle has 4 toe already from Xc and lner. So if TPE provides 1tpe to cover the small stations this would help keep that market satisfied.

 

[JonathanH]

Using 6-coach 185 formations for most as well as the few Novas that are in service, run Manchester Piccadilly to York shuttles on an every 15 minute frequency; three 'fast' and one 'semi-fast', with one per hour continuing to Manchester Airport. Then separately Victoria-Huddersfield and Huddersfield-Leeds stopping services with mainly single 185s.

Then run separate half-hourly shuttle service between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria, using mixture of single and double 185 formations.

Finally, use spare 185s from the reduction in frequency and shorter journeys to ensure 6-coach running on the South route during the day and use doubled up 185s to replace the remaining 350 diagrams on the Scottish services.

Leave Cross Country, Northern and LNER to cover for the local and long distance services in the east and North East.

I think these proposals use more staff / units than are available at the current time. You need to cut it back by more than you have indicated. If it was just a performance issue your suggestions might be possible but actually a large cut back in frequency is needed (using longer trains on the core stretches).

 

[Esker-pades]

It might not be an utterly terrible idea to curtail the Scottish services to Carlisle on a temporary basis?

It really, really would be. Edinburgh would be left with 1tp2h to Carlisle, which is insufficient. Glasgow would have 3tp2h, so is less essential.