TPE Configuraition

[premier01]

Is there any way of knowing where 1st Class will be on a 180 TPE train-can't seem to get it right when boarding at busy times-if I stand at the front on a 2 set then it's in the middle-if I stand near the middle it's at the front!

On Virgin Trains I know to stand at the front on Southbound Pendolino services for example-just saves time when getting to travel in first.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Is there any way of knowing where 1st Class will be on a 180 TPE train-can't seem to get it right when boarding at busy times-if I stand at the front on a 2 set then it's in the middle-if I stand near the middle it's at the front!

On Virgin Trains I know to stand at the front on Southbound Pendolino services for example-just saves time when getting to travel in first.

From what I've seen at Preston, First on TPE seems to be towards the North end of the train (i.e. at Preston, First Class is at the Lancaster end of the platforms), but with the reversals at both Piccadilly and Airport, I'm saying it could be anywhere, but probably at the west/north end on NW/Scotland TPE services...

 

[ainsworth74]

It seems to be fairly random the only pattern that I've noticed is that on the Northern TPE route 1st Class tends to be at the Manchester end. But I've seen it at the opposite end as well!

 

[Crossover]

Me being fussy but I'm guessing you mean 185's :P

I use them fairly regular into/out of Manchester and it general does seem pretty random where they are.

You may already be aware of this the bar above the coupler indicates which end is which (Voyagers are the same) whereby the Yellow bar is the 1st class end. I often use it to determine as the train pulls into the station, where I want to be (I have a tendancy to sit in the declassified but between the cab and 1st)

With Virgin and East coast 1st class usually runs at the front southbound and vice versa - I am led to believe this is so 1st class customers don't have to walk the length of the train at the London station (at Manchester they can sod it :P) - also with the "225's", the DVT runs at the front southbound so 1st class passengers don't get the noise of the loco.

There was a case last week at Stafford where a service ran in reverse formation on its journey from London and this was explicitly stated goodness knows how many times on the annoucement that that was the case, so with those you can be nigh on guaranteed to know what will be where.

 

[yorkie]

Is there any way of knowing where 1st Class will be on a 180 TPE train-can't seem to get it right when boarding at busy times-if I stand at the front on a 2 set then it's in the middle-if I stand near the middle it's at the front!

No, but yellow on the coupling indicates First at that end.

In general it's best to head to the standard end but there are exceptions, e.g.:
*When boarding 185s at Leeds heading West at peak times, always head to the rear regardless of configuration, especially if it's a 6 car (you may get a table in the 6th coach but the front vestibule will have a higher density of passengers than I have ever seen, even on the tube!)
*When boarding trains ex-Hull/Cleethorpes (Northern/TPE) heading West at Doncaster (platform 3b), always go to the rear regardless of configuration, especially if it's a 3/4 car. Last time I got a table to myself in the rear coach but the front would have been extremely busy judging by the number of passengers waiting on the platform.

Some passengers would rather stand like sardines than walk about 50 metres, apparently.

 

[185]

Yep. Depends which way round it was when it comes off Ardwick Depot.

With the diversions between Manchester & Leeds via Rochdale, Leeds-York via Castleford, York-Middlesboro via Darlo, or via Morecambe, trains can often turn around mid route.

Easiest way is to look for the yellow paint on the coupler or look for the table lamps as the train approaches.

 

[yorkie]

also with the "225's", the DVT runs at the front southbound so 1st class passengers don't get the noise of the loco.

You are kidding, right?

Class 91s can be loud externally - I could hear them louder than MTUs at Waverley when I climbed Arthur's Seat - but you can hardly hear them inside the train! I doubt that FC has ever been positioned away from a loco for that reason. By that logic, HSTs would have TFS instead of TGS vehicles, wouldn't they? (and I wish they had done!)

 

[ainsworth74]

Class 91s can be loud externally

Indeed they do make a hell of a lot of noise 91s, but standing in the vestibule behind the loco you can barley hear them!

 

[yorkie]

Yeah, I'll really miss the 91s when they go (but I think there's at least a couple of decades left in them yet!).

In fact you could argue that the closer you are to the loco, the better the ride quality. So if the logic is better comfort for FC passengers, they should be put nearer the loco!

Of course in reality it will be whatever is operationally convenient. (e.g. Class 90s are next to FC on the London - Norwich route, because of the location of Crown Point depot, and it's easier to swap locos at Norwich).

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah it will be a sad when they leave, especially if they end up being replaced with some sort of EMU (which seems to be likely )

 

[philjo]

I believe one reason why the 91s were at the north end of the train was that it allowed them to be swapped at Kings Cross if necessary as they could go to Bounds Green whilst the coaches remained in the station. Also, the luggage storage area in the DVT is next to the barrier.

I was on a southbound service last month coming back from Northumberland. The train reversed at Newcastle (no reason given) over the High Level bridge so 1st class was now at the rear, causing delays at Durham & Darlington as everyone waiting at the platform had to go to the other end.

 

[ffcphone]

As has been stated there is no way other than to check for the yellow coloured coupler as the train approaches. The theory that first class is always at one end is not true. As a daily commuter on TransPennine North I can confirm first class can be either end. This morning it was at the southernmost end of the Edinburgh train I caught at Bolton.

If you board at a station where there is a change of trolley, keep an eye on them. They will seek out the coupler position early on and adjust their position accordingly. Trolley's always board at the first class end of the train.

 

[Welshman]

"with the "225's", the DVT runs at the front southbound so 1st class passengers don't get the noise of the loco"

I thought the original idea of having the 91 at the "country" end at KX was so it could be more conveniently detached/attached to work freight services during the night [IIRC that was the original plan].

Now, of course, more passenger services plus the need for maintenance time means that doesn't happen. But leaving them at the country end means less discomfort for those in the station - imagine the effect on the eardrums of one or two 91s switched on in the enclosed concourse end!

[apologies to philjo for duplicating one of his points - he posted his while I was composing mine!]

 

[Soupdragon]

If you board at a station where there is a change of trolley, keep an eye on them. They will seek out the coupler position early on and adjust their position accordingly. Trolley's always board at the first class end of the train.

They dont even have to look for the coupler.. a quick look on the office computer tells them the train configuration before they head for the platform..

 

[premier01]

Me being fussy but I'm guessing you mean 185's :P

I use them fairly regular into/out of Manchester and it general does seem pretty random where they are.

You may already be aware of
this the bar above the coupler indicates which end is which (Voyagers are the same) whereby the Yellow bar is the 1st class end. I often use it to determine as the train pulls into the station, where I want to be (I have a tendancy to sit in the declassified but between the cab and 1st)

With Virgin and East coast 1st class usually runs at the front southbound and vice versa - I am led to believe this is so 1st class customers don't have to walk the length of the train at the London station (at Manchester they can sod it :P) - also with the "225's", the DVT runs at the front southbound so 1st class passengers don't get the noise of the loco.

There was a case last week at Stafford where a service ran in reverse formation on its journey from London and this was explicitly stated goodness knows how many times on the annoucement that that was the case, so with those you can be nigh on guaranteed to know what will be where.

Ok thanks for all the interesting advice on this.

Yes I did mean Class 185's-got a lot more homework to do on knowing the classification numbers etc : -)

It had been my observation that the 1st section could end up anywhere on TPE but didn't know about the yellow markings!

It depends on whether I am travelling in 1st or not of course but if not I agree it is best to explore the train first before just giving up and standing anywhere.

On 1st tickets I also use the trolley tactic and it generally works at Preston and at Manchester.

 

[Crossover]

They dont even have to look for the coupler.. a quick look on the office computer tells them the train configuration before they head for the platform..

They don't necessarily always do this - I have seen them running from one end of the platform to the other, trolley in tow, through crowds of people because they have chosen the wrong end!

 

[185]

They don't necessarily always do this - I have seen them running from one end of the platform to the other, trolley in tow, through crowds of people because they have chosen the wrong end!

I don't think RailGourmet have any technology for the trolley staff to know which way round the train is.... most of the time even the Unit Controller in TPE Control doesn't know which way round his trains are. One certain controller has rung me almost every day to ask me which way round my train was. (err.. allegedly).

 

[Crossover]

When I got the train yesterday from Piccadilly, I think they initially were waiting at the concourse end and had to move as they needed the other end.

Oddly though, there was two catering trollies on a single 185 service....overkill or what!!! (my better judgement would think they put them both on as one will then be used to do an onward service other than the service I was on or for 2 separate return workings)

In hindsight I should have asked if they knew the formation before arriving on the platform or not :P

 

[premier01]

When I got the train yesterday from Piccadilly, I think they initially were waiting at the concourse end and had to move as they needed the other end.

Oddly though, there was two catering trollies on a single 185 service....overkill or what!!! (my better judgement would think they put them both on as one will then be used to do an onward service other than the service I was on or for 2 separate return workings)

In hindsight I should have asked if they knew the formation before arriving on the platform or not :P

That is unusual-it's always annoying when there's 2 sets and only 1 trolley and you board the coach without the trolley-usually get off at the next station and swap-yes 1 of the sad individuals that likes to partake of the 'free' coffee when in 1st-it's actually not nice stuff-but guess that's another topic : -)