TPE Class 185s - Current Status and Future Use?

[Neptune]

Hull needs 10 185s to run daily as 6 car.
Leeds-Hudds stopper requires 3 185s
Hudds - Man Pic stopper needs 6 185s for 6 car running
Cleethorpes - MIA needs 14 185s for 6 car running (may be extended to Liverpool as per MRTF)
Saltburn takes 8 Nova 3 sets, which means at least 6, if not 8 sets of 185s will be required for Liverpool-Scarborough to run as 6 car..

The LDS - HUD and MAN - HUD stoppers are on 2 hour circuits so you’ve wildly over estimated those.

 

[Purple Orange]

They won't be utilised on more than those routes. And there's potential for TPE to run a Newcastle - Edinburgh shuttle as per the "consultation"

I see no reason why we wouldn’t have 802s on
Liverpool-Newcastle and Liverpool-Scarborough or Manchester-Airport-Saltburn.

 

[Fokx]

I see no reason why we wouldn’t have 802s on
Liverpool-Newcastle and Liverpool-Scarborough or Manchester-Airport-Saltburn.

The simple answer to that is where the trains end up at the end of the day and it’s largely north or Newcastle (with some in the sidings of Edge Hill)

You’re not going to see them on the MIA to Saltburn route without significant changes to the timetable and planning. Additionally it means the Airport, Scarborough and Piccadilly conductors would all need full traction training along with Scarborough train crew and eventually the catering staff

 

[Purple Orange]

The simple answer to that is where the trains end up at the end of the day and it’s largely north or Newcastle (with some in the sidings of Edge Hill)

You’re not going to see them on the MIA to Saltburn route without significant changes to the timetable and planning. Additionally it means the Airport, Scarborough and Piccadilly conductors would all need full traction training along with Scarborough train crew and eventually the catering staff

So the net result is more diesel running under wires. That’s not good enough. This whole industry needs a massive head wobble.

 

[LittleAH]

The LDS - HUD and MAN - HUD stoppers are on 2 hour circuits so you’ve wildly over estimated those.

Often they're rotated into Ardwick on the Man-Hud stoppers. Leeds overestimated by one, but still 185s will be going nowhere anytime soon.

I see no reason why we wouldn’t have 802s on
Liverpool-Newcastle and Liverpool-Scarborough or Manchester-Airport-Saltburn.

Just won't happen. Of course had this sham of a consultation not happened, we wouldn't be in this position.

 

[Fokx]

So the net result is more diesel running under wires. That’s not good enough. This whole industry needs a massive head wobble.

It would barely make a difference anyway on the Airport route as only Airport to Victoria is wired, most trains only run that way for less than 12 hours of the day (with the first few Eastbound coming from Ardwick - which under class 68 will be Manchester International) the effect is minimal.

 

[Purple Orange]

It would barely make a difference anyway on the Airport route as only Airport to Victoria is wired, most trains only run that way for less than 12 hours of the day (with the first few Eastbound coming from Ardwick - which under class 68 will be Manchester International) the effect is minimal.

It could be significantly less diesel under wires if it was actually a Liverpool-Saltburn (Middlesbrough) service. That journey is 163 miles, of which 50% is electrified (it is 150 miles to Middlesbrough). Clearly there is a problem here whereby the industry thinks it is acceptable to be profligate with diesel usage and not use electrified infrastructure where it can. This again can be seen with the XC given the green light for services running diesel under wires, spewing filth all the way up to Scotland, rather than TPE (which still needs to get to a depot up that way).

 

[BoroAndy]

185s won't be leaving TPE anytime soon. The requirement for the rolling stock is still there.

Nova 3's will operate to Saltburn from may 22, requiring 8 sets which will mean 185s will appear more on the Liverpool-Scarborough route and six car formations will be the norm bar the Leeds-Huddersfield stoppers.

Seems a bit unlikely that Redcar will get preference over Scarborough for the Nova 3s, as the new depot has been built at Scarborough.

 

[YorkshireBear]

With the plans for Edinburgh-Newcastle looking like having a TPE shuttle and Newcastle Liverpool reduced to York to Manchester Victoria won't TPE have some spare 802s that could be redistributed?

Yes crews will need training but there is plenty of time.

Personally with the TPE stock it is a no brainer for them to take Liverpool to Nottingham. But I've always thought that and yet it doesn't seem to happen!

 

[Purple Orange]

With the plans for Edinburgh-Newcastle looking like having a TPE shuttle and Newcastle Liverpool reduced to York to Manchester Victoria won't TPE have some spare 802s that could be redistributed?

Yes crews will need training but there is plenty of time.

Personally with the TPE stock it is a no brainer for them to take Liverpool to Nottingham. But I've always thought that and yet it doesn't seem to happen!

I doubt there will be a situation where there are a decent number of 802s sat idle. Either utilise them on the remaining TPE network or send them to another TOC. I think they should utilise them o the TPE core in the first instance and my preference would be on the Liverpool-Scarborough route.

 

[LittleAH]

Seems a bit unlikely that Redcar will get preference over Scarborough for the Nova 3s, as the new depot has been built at Scarborough.

Not unlikely, it's what will be happening. Came from some meeting about ECML consultation with all staff.

 

[Fokx]

Not unlikely, it's what will be happening. Came from some meeting about ECML consultation with all staff.

Additionally they’re largely based Manchester side where the heavy maintenance takes place (Ready to start service to/from the Airport/Piccadilly/Victoria)

 

[317 forever]

185s won't be leaving TPE anytime soon. The requirement for the rolling stock is still there.

Nova 3's will operate to Saltburn from may 22, requiring 8 sets which will mean 185s will appear more on the Liverpool-Scarborough route and six car formations will be the norm bar the Leeds-Huddersfield stoppers.

Will the Saltburn service be an extension of the current Manchester Airport - Redcar Central service? Could it mean a reduction of Northern trains to Saltburn? (Sorry if I've missed an announcement).

 

[swt_passenger]

Will the Saltburn service be an extension of the current Manchester Airport - Redcar Central service? Could it mean a reduction of Northern trains to Saltburn? (Sorry if I've missed an announcement).

That’s exactly what it is, it’s quite clear in the 2022 ECML timetable discussion thread.

Various consultations on the May 2022 East Coast Mainline timetable

Mod Note: It appears that there are currently four separate consultations underway between CrossCountry, LNER, Transpennine Express, Northern and Great Northern/Thameslink relating to the May 2022 timetable change and their ECML services. Links to all four are below and some documents have been...

www.railforums.co.uk

Nothing is said about the effect on Northern in the TPE version of the consultation, and the Northern consultation page still has 2 tph at Saltburn. What they have done is changed all the departure times at both ends of their route.