TPE Cancelled, no alternative offered

[L401CJF]

Morning, looking for advice for somebody I know. Yesterday (22/08/22) he was booked on the 2006 Newcastle to Liverpool using advance tickets split at Manchester Victoria. Both route AP Tpe Only.

The person in question is a 16 year old lad with autism and also suffers from minor hearing difficulties. He is capable of travelling alone and does so very often for train spotting etc. He is a very frequent traveller - however in situations like this struggles to understand what should happen.

The 2006 from Newcastle was cancelled. I believe this is the last direct service to Liverpool. I can't comment on how early on it got cancelled.

He spoke to staff and was told despite the cancellation he can't use another service and basically he's stuck and will have to buy a new ticket.

He ended up getting a parent/carer to fork out for a hotel and he is still up there now.

I'm waiting for more details off him, but can anybody help me understand where he stands in this situation?

Should TPE have left him stranded or paid for a taxi etc?

Advise appreciated.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ok, this one’s bad because this is a child. First, it looks like the train was cancelled some time before the start of play yesterday as it doesn’t appear in RealTimeTrains.

Who did he speak to? And what exactly was said? Regardless of the minutiae over what the child is due given the train wasn’t scheduled to run, you can’t just leave a child with a train ticket wanting to travel 200 miles, alone in Newcastle. This is a duty of care matter.

 

[L401CJF]

Details I have got is as follows. I don't know Newcastle Station at all so not sure what the score is staff wise.

He said he looked for staff but none obviously around, ticket gates open, office closed. He phoned TPE on 03456001671 for advice who said as its a split ticket and advance can't be used on anything else and that he would have to buy another. They however didn't offer any alternatives and said they cant do anything! I don't think he mentioned his age or disability to them, he's over 16 so using Adult tickets so I assume he didn't think it was relevant.

He purchased tickets via Train pal on Saturday night and didn't realise it was cancelled until he got to the station last night.

Age/disability aside, I was of the understanding if you hold tickets for a service that is cancelled they should be accommodated via another route if possible. In hindsight he could have checked if the train was running a bit earlier on, but many people turn up at the station at the right time and expect the trains to run as they should.

He is still in Newcastle now and will be buying a single ticket to Liverpool at some point today. So not only left stranded but very much out of pocket too.

 

[nedchester]

He had a ticket to travel. The railway had a duty yesterday to convey him to Liverpool, even by taxi.

He does NOT have to buy a ticket for today but use his ticket from yesterday for the cancelled train. Split ticket makes no difference.

 

[AlterEgo]

Details I have got is as follows. I don't know Newcastle Station at all so not sure what the score is staff wise.

He said he looked for staff but none obviously around, ticket gates open, office closed. He phoned TPE on 03456001671 for advice who said as its a split ticket and advance can't be used on anything else and that he would have to buy another. They however didn't offer any alternatives and said they cant do anything! I don't think he mentioned his age or disability to them, he's over 16 so using Adult tickets so I assume he didn't think it was relevant.

I bet he picked option 2 and went through to National Rail Enquiries, which is based in India and as use as a chocolate teapot.

It’s too late now but he really ought to have spoken to staff at Newcastle. It’s a staffed station, with a ticket office, platform staff and various other staff around the place.

Age/disability aside, I was of the understanding if you hold tickets for a service that is cancelled they should be accommodated via another route if possible.

Indeed!

 

[L401CJF]

I bet he picked option 2 and went through to National Rail Enquiries, which is based in India and as use as a chocolate teapot.

It’s too late now but he really ought to have spoken to staff at Newcastle. It’s a staffed station, with a ticket office, platform staff and various other staff around the place.

Indeed!

This was what I said to him, again too late now. He is one of these people (like many) who see no staff obviously around, see ticket gates open and assume they've all gone home for the night. I dont know Newcastle myself, but I can understand it - after 8pm in Chester when the gates are open and only the dispatchers are there, unless a train is being dispatched you wouldn't think anybody is there!

All points taken on board and I shall pass them on.

I have reiterated the importance of finding staff on site next time even if not obvious, as the best option.

Cheers for the help.

 

[DanNCL]

This is sadly not a surprise to me, TPE have a habit of doing this.

So just to clarify, was he unable to find any member of staff from any company at Newcastle station? As there should have at the very least been LNER staff present and at that time of night they have a duty of care to passengers from all operators, especially those with additional needs.

He should not be left out of pocket. His tickets would have been valid on the next TPE service from Newcastle and any connections required to reach Liverpool. If reaching Liverpool by train wasn’t possible then they would have had to provide a taxi or provide a hotel. If he is forced to buy new tickets, he should keep them and claim the money back, and he should also claim for any accommodation he may have have had to pay for in Newcastle last night as a result of this.

What TPE told him on the phone was wrong. An advance ticket is valid on the next train if the booked train is cancelled, and split ticketing shouldn’t make a difference here.

So to summarise, he should speak to staff at Newcastle station. The ticket office is probably the best bet for this, they can issue a formal endorsement to use the tickets today which whilst there’s no requirement to obtain this it should give him some peace of mind.

It would be great if you can keep us updated on how this progresses, and if there are any further problems (hopefully not!) we’ll do our best to help!

Ok, this one’s bad because this is a child. First, it looks like the train was cancelled some time before the start of play yesterday as it doesn’t appear in RealTimeTrains.

TPE are known from removing trains from the timetable after the 22:00 cut off point the day before.

I bet he picked option 2 and went through to National Rail Enquiries, which is based in India and as use as a chocolate teapot.

The chocolate teapot would probably have been more helpful!

On a serious note though, there really should be a better option on the phone than that poor offer.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

He had a ticket to travel. The railway had a duty yesterday to convey him to Liverpool, even by taxi.

He does NOT have to buy a ticket for today but use his ticket from yesterday for the cancelled train. Split ticket makes no difference.

While this is right in principle, could I respectfully suggest that on this occasion, buying a new ticket is the best thing to do?

We've got - by the sounds of things - a fairly distressed lad who just wants to get home. That trumps everything else. Buy a through ticket which will get him home without any hassle.

Having said which, encourage him to hang on to receipts etc for all the expense incurred. Then once he's at home take it up with the railway and chase them for all the money due (hotel, additional ticket, anything else?). My feeling is that once TPE understand the extent of their failure they will be happy to refund all additional costs to avoid the story getting into the Echo (and the Newcastle Journal).

 

[Haywain]

He said he looked for staff but none obviously around, ticket gates open, office closed. He phoned TPE on 03456001671 for advice who said as its a split ticket and advance can't be used on anything else and that he would have to buy another. They however didn't offer any alternatives and said they cant do anything! I don't think he mentioned his age or disability to them, he's over 16 so using Adult tickets so I assume he didn't think it was relevant.

He purchased tickets via Train pal on Saturday night and didn't realise it was cancelled until he got to the station last night.

Could you clarify when this happened? At what time did he become aware of the cancellation and at what time did he phone? Whilst it isn't strictly relevant it would help to understand.

 

[Haywain]

It’s too late now but he really ought to have spoken to staff at Newcastle. It’s a staffed station, with a ticket office, platform staff and various other staff around the place.

At 20:00 the staffing levels at Newcastle are really quite low; the ticket office will be closed as will the information point and the gateline will be open and unstaffed. There won't be much more than a couple of platform staff and they can be difficult to find.

 

[Fokx]

Although a bit late now, the official advice that should have been passed on was the following:

Customers are advised to travel on the 20:17 LNER service from Newcastle to York.
Change at York for the 21:15 TransPennine Express connections to Manchester Victoria and Manchester Piccadilly.
Change at 23:22 from the 23:22 Northern service to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

[L401CJF]

He got to station around 1935, saw it cancelled, phoned TPE at 1950 after finding no staff, advised nothing they could do (quite possibly the teapot option 2..).

He has since said he did speak to LNER staff after phoning TPE (didn't think it was relevant as different TOC) who said there was ticket acceptance with them to York, but also said they weren't sure on further connections from there and "may not be until tomorrow". He opted to stay in a hotel in Newcastle rather than be stranded in York.

He's now on the train back to Liverpool, situation explained and yesterday's advance has been accepted so at least he didn't have to pay for a new ticket.

To me it sounds like there were arrangements in place (as mentioned above by @Fokx ), but not communicated particularly well to ground staff etc.

Thanks for the input all.

 

[AlterEgo]

He has since said he did speak to LNER staff after phoning TPE (didn't think it was relevant as different TOC) who said there was ticket acceptance with them to York, but also said they weren't sure on further connections from there and "may not be until tomorrow".

TERRIBLE.

We've just seen there was acceptance and it is hardly difficult for staff to even look up that there was another TPE train running anyway. Some staff are so absolutely flipping lazy, even if they weren't sure - pick up the PHONE and ask TPE instead of stranding someone who's been shafted by the railway.

 

[wilbers]

The chocolate teapot would probably have been more helpful!

Quite, no answer would have been much more useful than the wrong answer.

 

[Fokx]

I’d also recommend to your friend that if they do find themselves in a situation similar to the above again, particularly late at night and they don’t receive much help from rail staff is to contact BTP directly for assistance.

Above all, this is a safeguarding issue.

If they’d like to report it, and potentially seek reimbursement for the hotel, ask their parent/guardians to email ( tpecustomer.relations@tpexpress.co.uk )with a full explanation of what happened, and the additionally include inability to find staff with information (for hotel cost recovery).

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that posts in this thread should be about providing constructive advice to the OP about their sitation described.

I have created a new thread in the Speculative Ideas section about the wider issue of children travelling unaccompanied which can be found here

 

[DanNCL]

At 20:00 the staffing levels at Newcastle are really quite low; the ticket office will be closed as will the information point and the gateline will be open and unstaffed. There won't be much more than a couple of platform staff and they can be difficult to find.

The ticket office should have still been open until 20:00 and the OP is saying that his friend had been trying to find staff at 19:50. So had the ticket office closed early?

He has since said he did speak to LNER staff after phoning TPE (didn't think it was relevant as different TOC) who said there was ticket acceptance with them to York, but also said they weren't sure on further connections from there and "may not be until tomorrow". He opted to stay in a hotel in Newcastle rather than be stranded in York.

He's now on the train back to Liverpool, situation explained and yesterday's advance has been accepted so at least he didn't have to pay for a new ticket.

To me it sounds like there were arrangements in place (as mentioned above by @Fokx ), but not communicated particularly well to ground staff etc.

TERRIBLE.

We've just seen there was acceptance and it is hardly difficult for staff to even look up that there was another TPE train running anyway. Some staff are so absolutely flipping lazy, even if they weren't sure - pick up the PHONE and ask TPE instead of stranding someone who's been shafted by the railway.

Firstly I'm glad he's now on a train back to Liverpool, but it really shouldn't have ended up being this difficult. And then the TOCs and the DFT wonder why people are getting fed up with the railway...

I would advise making a formal complaint to LNER about the conduct of their staff at Newcastle station. If it were up to me I'd be charging LNER for the hotel too seeing as he wouldn't have needed the hotel had the LNER staff done their jobs properly, but sadly I suspect that claim would need to be made against TPE instead. It sounds like the actions of the LNER staff may have breached their Making Travel Accessible policy which would be worth having a read of. I'll admit I haven't yet read it so it may not cover the matter but it's worth having a look just in case. https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets...ing-rail-accessible---april-2021---supply.pdf

Also advise him to make a delay repay claim from TPE too, I think it goes without saying that the amount he's entitled to for this is 100%!

To say the handling of this by LNER staff at Newcastle has been disgraceful is an understatement, but this is sadly not the first time in the last month I've heard of them leaving vulnerable customers stranded overnight when there was no need to do so. There has been an issue with bias against customers not travelling with LNER at Newcastle station for a long time, and this may be coincidence but most of the complaints I hear about them are from the evenings. There is a culture of rotten behaviour with some of the staff at that station and LNER really need to sort it out.

Arrangements were in place as mentioned by @Fokx, and should have been clearly communicated to everyone awaiting that train by the TOC that manages the station, in this case LNER.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I would advise making a formal complaint to LNER about the conduct of their staff at Newcastle station.

Newcastle seems to be developing a certain reputation of recent... See also linked thread below...

Why are there no clear rules on what should happen when a train is cancelled?

My mother travelled today on a day return Middlesbrough to Newcastle via Hartlepool. The return service was cancelled and the next direct service would have resulted in a delay of at least 65 mins. Having read it's up to the guard as to whether you can travel on another TOC's service after a...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Haywain]

The ticket office should have still been open until 20:00 and the OP is saying that his friend had been trying to find staff at 19:50. So had the ticket office closed early?

Ticket office is not open beyond 19:00.

 

[Western Sunset]

Not criticising platform staff per se; this is more a management/cultural/customer awareness aspect. But maybe late in the evenings (when ticket offices/information centres have closed) platform staff could be more proactive with a more visible presence around stations. From experience, often the only staff around late evenings are dispatchers, who quickly leave the platform and return to their office once a train has departed.

 

[Haywain]

Not criticising platform staff per se; this is more a management/cultural/customer awareness aspect. But maybe late in the evenings (when ticket offices/information centres have closed) platform staff could be more proactive with a more visible presence around stations. From experience, often the only staff around late evenings are dispatchers, who quickly leave the platform and return to their office once a train has departed.

They return to their office because there is other stuff to do, it's not just dispatching trains.

 

[peri]

Could the information screens say "Cancelled" and then inform the customer as to which train they should take?
That is the first place anyone will look at.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could the information screens say "Cancelled" and then inform the customer as to which train they should take?
That is the first place anyone will look at.

They didn’t say cancelled because the train was removed from the schedule. It’s bad, I know. But even so, staff should have given the right answer, which wasn’t hard to figure out. It was extremely lazy of them not to.

 

[IanXC]

Newcastle seems to be developing a certain reputation of recent... See also linked thread below...

Why are there no clear rules on what should happen when a train is cancelled?

My mother travelled today on a day return Middlesbrough to Newcastle via Hartlepool. The return service was cancelled and the next direct service would have resulted in a delay of at least 65 mins. Having read it's up to the guard as to whether you can travel on another TOC's service after a...

www.railforums.co.uk

And the common theme is that LNER staff at Newcastle seem to think they are not required or expected to deal with passengers intending to travel on other operators services, when they are the Station Facility Operator.