TPE cancellation dispute

[Class142sbad]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tpe-cancelled-no-alternative-offered.236177/

A similar event took place at Edinburgh Waverley on the 3rd of December.

If I recall correctly, the 17:34 TPE to Newcastle was canceled and in true TPE fashion, no alternatives were given (From what the passengers said and no annoucements saying if they could use their tickets on XC service).

I was booked on the 17:56 LUMO to Morpeth. Many of the passengers who were going to get the 17:34 thought that because the train was cancelled, automatic ticket acceptance was in place on the 17:56 LUMO. This resulted in arguments between the train staff and the passengers (In the end the passengers did pay the fare and hopefully got their refunds from Worst Group).

But this example shows what happens when there is a lack of information for when there is short notice cancellation.
(Sorry if this seems a bit mixed up)

 

[yorkie]

It's too late to look into it now but TPE have to offer alternative provision. If there is no appropriate further TPE service, any company in a position to help is obliged to do so; Lumo are not allowed to charge people if that was the case.

If a signifiant group of people refused to pay, Lumo would just have to lump it.

Next time please post here as soon as possible; at the time if you can, or failing that on the same day or the day after.

Sadly this sort of thing will continue to happen because all too often the railway does not treat passengers appropriately and there are insufficient safeguards in place to protect passengers. I suggest writing to your MP about this incident. Nothing will change though. When incidents occur, passengers need to be firm regarding their rights. I would always advice anyone in need of assistance to post here ASAP with as much info as possible regarding their intended itinerary and ticket(s) held.

 

[jamiearmley]

They cancelled a lot of Bradford - London grand central trains this morning.

Trainline sent emails to pax i talked to telling them to get the next available grand central service. There was no 'ticket acceptance' in place.

There were no further grand central services from brighouse, mirfield , etc.

I happily, without question, carried many pax to Leeds, due to the cancellations.

I was ashamed to watch them all be told by LNER to buy new tickets from Leeds to London.

This privatised railway lark, with different companies who ignore basic rights and rules, needs to end. The railway exists for passengers, no one else.

I was ashamed to wear my uniform today.

 

[Haywain]

This privatised railway lark, with different companies who ignore basic rights and rules,

What rules were being ignored?

 

[jamiearmley]

What rules were being ignored?

Passengers had tickets. There were no alternative services . Passengers were forced to buy new tickets. Bang out of order.

Ticket acceptance is one thing : but when passengers are told to either buy new tickets or not travel, that's unacceptable.

 

[yorkie]

I don't know the details of that incident, but if there were no GC services available and LNER were in a position to help, LNER are obliged to do so. They cannot charge for new tickets in such situations and a large group of passengers simply needs to refuse to pay up and LNER will be forced to lump it.

In contrast, my LNER Guard wasn't at all interested in an actual fare dodger travelling from Retford to York today, despite earlier in the journey threatening to charge anyone who was travelling on a GC/Lumo/HT/GN ticket. Now that's a very warped logic in my opinion, and I wouldn't want to do my job like that, but each to their own. Some people seem to enjoy going for the easy targets.

@jamiearmley if only more people were like you! to be fair many are; we only hear reports of the bad ones. You should be proud of the job you do.

 

[30907]

I don't know the details of that incident, but if there were no GC services available and LNER were in a position to help, LNER are obliged to do so. They cannot charge for new tickets in such situations and a large group of passengers simply needs to refuse to pay up and LNER will be forced to lump it.

GCR told their pax to travel later in the day. They operated the one later train from Bradford, and arranged stops at Doncaster in Sunderland trains. Pretty dire.

 

[Haywain]

Passengers had tickets. There were no alternative services . Passengers were forced to buy new tickets. Bang out of order.

I agree, bang out of order on the part of Grand Central. They appear to be taking a fairly cavalier attitude to their responsibilities.

 

[jamiearmley]

GCR told their pax to travel later in the day. They operated the one later train from Bradford, and arranged stops at Doncaster in Sunderland trains. Pretty dire.

Aye, 0758 BDI KGX cancelled. I got pax for that service at BGH and MIR.

next service 1450 BDI KGX.

That's just under a 7 hour delay.

No cross operator ticket acceptance.

Shameful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2022 ==

I agree, bang out of order on the part of Grand Central. They appear to be taking a fairly cavalier attitude to their responsibilities.

Spot on.

Also bang out of order on behalf of LNER.

Post ticket check, a quick phone call to control, stating you were carrying xxx number of pax with GC advances due to cancellations, and then telling them to sort out what they need to, is all that's required. No new tickets need to be charged.

Ive done it myself, many times, when LNER have dumped a trainload on me at Leeds, Doncaster, etc with no acceptance in place.

We : the railway : are here for the passengers, not the managers or the accountants. (And im the first in line to report ticket fraud, non payment, etc. Ive featured in disputes and prosecutions a few times!)

Passengers are treated shabbily and we hide behind indefensible practices.

This, more than anything, needs to stop.

 

[yorkie]

Passengers cannot be told to wait 7 hours. What it needs is for the passengers to get together in groups, simply board LNER trains and head for Coach C. When challenged, refuse to pay any more. Be polite and respectful but do not pay. BTP are hardly going to eject a load of delayed passengers with tickets which the rail industry are obliged to honour on appropriate services.

This, more than anything, needs to stop.

I agree but it won't happen, sadly. No-one can make any of these companies behave. Passengers have to simply take matters into their own hands.

If I am aware of an issue unfolding in real time, and I am free at that time, I am up for providing assistance to passengers via the forum's Twitter account to remind the relevant operators of the rules. Usually TOCs block people for this but I don't think they would stoop to blocking the forum account for simply pasting the PIDD policy and NRCoT.

 

[janb]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tpe-cancelled-no-alternative-offered.236177/

A similar event took place at Edinburgh Waverley on the 3rd of December.

If I recall correctly, the 17:34 TPE to Newcastle was canceled and in true TPE fashion, no alternatives were given (From what the passengers said and no annoucements saying if they could use their tickets on XC service).

Looking back at the internal messaging (and what would have been replicated on journeycheck at the time) the advice was to travel on the next available TPE or LNER service.

 

[SuspectUsual]

No-one can make any of these companies behave

You’d like to think that the industry regulator would do this. But sadly it seems they won’t

 

[Class142sbad]

It's too late to look into it now but TPE have to offer alternative provision. If there is no appropriate further TPE service, any company in a position to help is obliged to do so; Lumo are not allowed to charge people if that was the case.

If a signifiant group of people refused to pay, Lumo would just have to lump it.

Next time please post here as soon as possible; at the time if you can, or failing that on the same day or the day after.

Sadly this sort of thing will continue to happen because all too often the railway does not treat passengers appropriately and there are insufficient safeguards in place to protect passengers. I suggest writing to your MP about this incident. Nothing will change though. When incidents occur, passengers need to be firm regarding their rights. I would always advice anyone in need of assistance to post here ASAP with as much info as possible regarding their intended itinerary and ticket(s) held.

I should have put it on earlier and I admit it was my fault. If I had known what I know now I would have told the other Passengers about their rights and what to do if they were not being upheld. I just think that if this keeps on happening in the railway it might turn Passengers away to Cars, Planes or to not travel at all. It is just unfortunate that this keeps on going on and not a lot is done about it

 

[nanstallon]

It is hard on the timid, who find it hard to assert their rights. I always feel that the police will side with a conductor who wants to boot me off the train.