TPE 1st Class Liverpool to Manchester

[trainophile]

I've just been told that there are no longer any refreshments in 1st on the Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough service until after Manchester Piccadilly. Last time I used this service I got a hot drink and a biscuit. Apparently that was a trial period.

It's only 47 minutes but still disappointing, especially as I have pre-booked half a dozen more tickets. £8.60 is cheapest Advance with railcard, so nearly £6 dearer than Standard . No wonder it's almost empty!

 

[DarloRich]

I do love the level of entitlement felt by many on this website, especially the railcard wonders!

Are you still getting a first class seat in better conditions than second class for your slightly higher fare? Have you thought that the reasons there are no refreshments is that the cheap advance railcard tickets make it economically impossible to meet the refreshment costs?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I thought TPE only had a trolley between Picadilly & York?

 

[trainophile]

Ooh, didn't mean to rattle any cages, just thought I'd mention it.

Apologies for "sense of entitlement" - we do pay for our railcards and pay extra for 1st Class, it's not like we expect something for nothing.

Gordon there was definitely a trolley on board from Liverpool last month.

 

[Greenback]

I think the point isn't so much expecting something for nothing, it's more that for £8.60 you expect a more spacious seat in a quieter section of the train, plus getting from one place to another, with free refreshments on top!

 

[Masbroughlad]

I think the point isn't so much expecting something for nothing, it's more that for £8.60 you expect a more spacious seat in a quieter section of the train, plus getting from one place to another, with free refreshments on top!

Couldn't agree more! Well said. A cuppa should be included - or at least the chance to buy one.

 

[alexl92]

I went First Class between Man Pic and Preston just before New Year last year and was offered a complimentary free drink and biscuit. But they charge about 3x the RRP for everything on the trolley anyway, surely freebies for 1st class aren't that crippling.

 

[Greenback]

A cuppa probably adds very little marginal cost, I agree, but it does add something, especially if you chuck in a biscuit

I suspect that TPE would be happy to give the comps out as long as the catering between Liverpool and Manchester was sufficiently profitable overall.

 

[trainophile]

I think Greenback might have been suggesting that a cup of tea was an expectation too far!

I was the only person in 1st old enough to have a railcard, and another person did ask whether there was a trolley. Presumably most were going beyond MAN so would have their thirsts quenched eventually. But any going just to MAN like me would have paid £13 or so for their ticket.

It's probably logistics as to where the trolley and relevant staff can start from.

 

[Greenback]

No, what I was saying was that it's the expectation of having free refreshments based on a price of £8.60 that includes 50 miles of travel in premium (allegedly) accommodation leads to accusations of entitlement! There's a subtle difference!

 

[trainophile]

No, what I was saying was that it's the expectation of having free refreshments based on a price of £8.60 that includes 50 miles of travel in premium (allegedly) accommodation leads to accusations of entitlement! There's a subtle difference!

I'm getting confused! . Any entitlement I felt was mainly due to previous experience. Maybe they have scrapped the cuppa so that they can keep the fares down... nah, I doubt it!

 

[Greenback]

I'm not saying you feel entitled, I'm saying why other responses think that you are. You're right it is getting confusing!

For clarification, I don't object to complimentary refreshments being served to you or anyone else in first class, but if the company doesn't think it's justified to put a service on, whether that's on certain parts of the route or after a certain time of day, then you aren't going to get any!

It's nothing to do with price really, and rightly so, but I think if you hadn't mentioned the cost in your first post no one would have picked up on what you get for that money.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ooh, didn't mean to rattle any cages, just thought I'd mention it.

Apologies for "sense of entitlement" - we do pay for our railcards and pay extra for 1st Class, it's not like we expect something for nothing.

I wouldn't worry too much certain members do not appreciate the fact that there isn't a 'universal railcard' and I can't say I blame them! Certainly once my YP runs out in a couple of years I'll join them in the moaning I think

 

[trainophile]

I wouldn't worry too much certain members do not appreciate the fact that there isn't a 'universal railcard' and I can't say I blame them! Certainly once my YP runs out in a couple of years I'll join them in the moaning I think

You could always become a mature student .

 

[Greenback]

I did that, but I have to say that my drop in earnings rendered it a pretty inefficient way to save money on rail fares!

 

[fowler9]

Is that £8.60 single or return? If its return I'll join you even if they beat me at the door. If it is single I'll still join you and make do without a free coffee.

 

[trainophile]

I did that, but I have to say that my drop in earnings rendered it a pretty inefficient way to save money on rail fares!

Ah, good point. Perhaps he could moonlight as a train trolley attendant?

Btw why don't the multi quote buttons work on my iPhone? And what is the button next to it for? Hope I haven't accidentally reported anyone's posts!

Fowler it's a single, and you're welcome to join me, but you must bring a flask of tea for both of us - milk no sugar please. I'll bring the biscuits!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought TPE only had a trolley between Picadilly & York?

Seems to be a TP North thing.
Trolley throughout on Blackpool/Scotland and TP South.
Trolley only between Manchester and York on TP North (Leeds on Hull services).
So Cleethorpes beats Hull/Scarborough/Middlesbrough.

Of course, LM will not offer you anything, however far you are travelling or however much you have paid.

 

[trainophile]

Seems to be a TP North thing.
Trolley throughout on Blackpool/Scotland and TP South.
Trolley only between Manchester and York on TP North (Leeds on Hull services).
So Cleethorpes beats Hull/Scarborough/Middlesbrough.

Of course, LM will not offer you anything, however far you are travelling or however much you have paid.

Which is why I never go in 1st on LM.

Just felt a bit cheated, but it's not too serious in the grand scale of things, and it gave us something to chat about!

 

[fowler9]

Ah, good point. Perhaps he could moonlight as a train trolley attendant?

Btw why don't the multi quote buttons work on my iPhone? And what is the button next to it for? Hope I haven't accidentally reported anyone's posts!

Fowler it's a single, and you're welcome to join me, but you must bring a flask of tea for both of us - milk no sugar please. I'll bring the biscuits!

Ha ha, it is a deal. I think the lack of differential between first and standard these days is a bit poor. It seems these days you pay first so you don't have someone sat on your knee.

 

[185]

FTPE went from:

-2006
Xpress Catering - Good value contract, reasonable priced trolley, crooked boss. (Caught double invoicing)

2006-2012
RailGourmet - Marginally more expensive contract, expensive trolley, well run op. Somewhat unpopular with passengers

2012-
Skytrac Limited - Much more expensive contract, very expensive trolley, mismanaged. (Poor coverage, Glasgow depot forced to close due to shortsightedness)

 

[northwichcat]

I thought TPE only had a trolley between Picadilly & York?

Yes. TPE advertise the trolley is available between Manchester Piccadilly and York/Leeds/Doncaster/Preston between 0700 and 1900 Mondays to Fridays.
The exception being Scottish services where the trolley service is available through out.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes. TPE advertise the trolley is available between Manchester Piccadilly and York/Leeds/Doncaster/Preston between 0700 and 1900 Mondays to Fridays.
The exception being Scottish services where the trolley service is available through out.

I was going on the notes in the NRT.
Looking again there are trolleys on services from Liverpool, but not early/late.
That's if the notes are correct, they frequently aren't.

 

[185]

Minimum DfT contractual coverage specified:

7-7 Manchester York Manchester Preston Manchester Sheffield

All Scottish Services, all times.

Failure to meet is a breach of the TOCs contract.

 

[northwichcat]

I was going on the notes in the NRT.
Looking again there are trolleys on services from Liverpool, but not early/late.
That's if the notes are correct, they frequently aren't.

Where did you get that information from? The North TPE timetable doesn't mention catering services to Liverpool: http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/mediafile/100077754/tt_north_insides_14dec2014-16may2015_48pp.pdf

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Where did you get that information from? The North TPE timetable doesn't mention catering services to Liverpool: http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/mediafile/100077754/tt_north_insides_14dec2014-16may2015_48pp.pdf

From the NRT (Table 39 for TP North).
There are notes to say where the trolley is available.
The catch is of course "available for all or part of journey".
I'd expect the TPE publication* to be more accurate though.

* it says Manchester Piccadilly and York, but I have seen trolleys working on Victoria-Liverpool services.
I haven't been on TPE since the timetable change.

 

[northwichcat]

* it says Manchester Piccadilly and York, but I have seen trolleys working on Victoria-Liverpool services.
I haven't been on TPE since the timetable change.

Ah I think I've worked out what it is then.

Newcastle-Liverpool and Liverpool-Scarborough were to stop being inter-worked at the latest timetable change. I imagine they don't want a catering trolley unloaded from westbound service at Victoria and waiting there 45 minutes for the next eastbound services, so keep the trolleys on to Liverpool.

 

[alwaystouchout]

I question whether going 1st class on such a relatively short journey is even worth it..

 

[185]

I question whether going 1st class on such a relatively short journey is even worth it..

I'd say it's part of a bigger picture. For people to/from Liverpool, it's not all travel to Manchester. Much of the travel is Leeds (2hrs ish) or Newcastle (3hrs). Certainly jouneys which I thought would warrant a small, token 1st Class.

 

[Greenback]

The question I'd ask myself is whether the fare is one I'm prepared to pay for the privilege of using first class for such a short journey. I must admit I wouldn't include the value of any refreshments in my thinking. as I look on them as a bonus, especially on a relatively short run.