TP route upgrade: TPE new bi mode stock?

[lrbvoyager]

One would assume with the TransPennine Route Upgrade TPE would look into replacing there 185 stocking with either Bi or Tri mode units. If so what would you they be? I personally believe that they would look into stadler flirts. What about you?

 

[alexl92]

It'll partly depend on timescale and who Northern order their new stock from. If Northern go with Stadtler then presumably they won't have capacity to produce units for anyone else until 2031/2032ish at the earliest for example.

 

[stevieinselby]

With both Hitachi and CAF already producing 125mph bi-mode trains, and TPX already having both Hitachi and CAF trains in their fleets, my guess is that they are more likely candidates than Stadler.
Another problem with the FLIRT is that the bi-mode model at the moment is only built in 3- and 4-car models, but with those carriages being smaller than other trains, that's equivalent to only 2- and 3-car anything else. TPX would need at least 6-car FLIRTs if that was the route they went down, but would the single diesel generator be sufficient for a bigger train? I'm not saying that it's an insurmountable problem, but it means that it wouldn't be an off-the-shelf design, so more expensive.

 

[BerkshireRails]

With both Hitachi and CAF already producing 125mph bi-mode trains, and TPX already having both Hitachi and CAF trains in their fleets, my guess is that they are more likely candidates than Stadler.
Another problem with the FLIRT is that the bi-mode model at the moment is only built in 3- and 4-car models, but with those carriages being smaller than other trains, that's equivalent to only 2- and 3-car anything else. TPX would need at least 6-car FLIRTs if that was the route they went down, but would the single diesel generator be sufficient for a bigger train? I'm not saying that it's an insurmountable problem, but it means that it wouldn't be an off-the-shelf design, so more expensive.

Considering the fact the 185s need as much power as they can get, a single power pack will not be enough.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Considering the fact the 185s need as much power as they can get, a single power pack will not be enough.

That's mostly for the hilly sections of the core, so they'll be running on electric (eventually). The unwired extremities (Hull, Scarborough, Middlesbrough) are much less challenging.

 

[lrbvoyager]

I believe they are more likely to go with CAF. The Class 897 seems a good shout as its Tri mode.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I believe they are more likely to go with CAF. The Class 897 seems a good shout as its Tri mode.

I think TPE's coprporate memory of CAF won't be amazing with both the MK5s now gone and the 397s which they are struggling with.

 

[465fan]

Can we all just agree that whatever they order, we have to pray with every part of our being that these trains, whatever they are, end up being at least 7 coaches long and not just bloody 5 cars. It will do great things to have 7 cars on the Manchester - Scotland, as well as particularly on the core section from Manchester to Leeds and York.

 

[Halish Railway]

Another problem with the FLIRT is that the bi-mode model at the moment is only built in 3- and 4-car models, but with those carriages being smaller than other trains, that's equivalent to only 2- and 3-car anything else. TPX would need at least 6-car FLIRTs if that was the route they went down, but would the single diesel generator be sufficient for a bigger train?

Some of Stadler’s GTW trains built for Trenitalia have two power cars (or whatever the correct term is).

There was a rumour a while back that they were interested in 7 carriage FLIRTs, but I’m not sure how much substance there is to that rumour.

 

[lrbvoyager]

Some of Stadler’s GTW trains built for Trenitalia have two power cars (or whatever the correct term is).

There was a rumour a while back that they were interested in 7 carriage FLIRTs, but I’m not sure how much substance there is to that rumour.

Flirts would be amazing. However isn’t some of the route (express tracks) meant to accommodate 110mph running. Correct me if I’m wrong but flirts can only do 100mph?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

Can we all just agree that whatever they order, we have to pray with every part of our being that these trains, whatever they are, end up being at least 7 coaches long and not just bloody 5 cars. It will do great things to have 7 cars on the Manchester - Scotland, as well as particularly on the core section from Manchester to Leeds and York.

I doubt whatever they will buy will be used on WCML operations. They will be to replace the 185s not the 397s I think.

 

[Halish Railway]

Flirts would be amazing. However isn’t some of the route (express tracks) meant to accommodate 110mph running. Correct me if I’m wrong but flirts can only do 100mph?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

The FlIRTS operated in Norway and Sweden can do 125mph.

 

[BerkshireRails]

The FlIRTS operated in Norway and Sweden can do 125mph.

There loading gauge is also larger which allows more space to fit all of that equipment in for 125mph running with level boarding. Also the units will have to do 10% over the design speed to make sure it is safe, hence why Tornado had to 100mph for being passed for 90mph, it was NR who said you might as well do 100mph as you going to do 99mph anyway.

 

[Brubulus]

There loading gauge is also larger which allows more space to fit all of that equipment in for 125mph running with level boarding. Also the units will have to do 10% over the design speed to make sure it is safe, hence why Tornado had to 100mph for being passed for 90mph, it was NR who said you might as well do 100mph as you going to do 99mph anyway.

The 745s are effectively 125mph units, they're just operating on a 100mph line so have been limited. Even the 755s could do 125 if that was desired (on electric) or at least that's what I've heard.

 

[Zomboid]

They definitely offer the FLIRT with a 200kmh top speed.
I don't know what would be special about the UK that means it'd be impossible for a British version to exceed 100.

 

[lrbvoyager]

so what company does everyone think will get a tender from TPE?