Towns Which Should Be Cities in Your Opinion

[OptareLover]

I was thinking to myself, Which Towns Should Be Cities (in your opinion)?

This can just be what you think should be a city, not having to think about serious stuff - like rules to be a proper city.

My first thought was Scotland's St. Andrews; it's very nice. Does it deserve to be a city?

Does anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Cowley]

I’m going to ok this thread even though I have a feeling that we’ve had a similar one before.

If we have had one before and you can point it in our direction then please let us know and we’ll merge them.

I thank you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The two that I keep forgetting aren't but probably should be are Shrewsbury and Bournemouth, particularly the latter.

There's also the one that lost its city status due to an administrative error a while back, somewhere in Kent I think - was it Rochester? That should probably get it back; it was just nonsensical stubbornness on the part of the Crown that they wouldn't issue the relevant Letters Patent to allow the mistake to be corrected.

 

[AlterEgo]

The two that I keep forgetting aren't but probably should be are Shrewsbury and Bournemouth, particularly the latter.

There's also the one that lost its city status due to an administrative error a while back, somewhere in Kent I think - was it Rochester? That should probably get it back; it was just nonsensical stubbornness on the part of the Crown that they wouldn't issue the relevant Letters Patent to allow the mistake to be corrected.

Medway Council intentionally didn't renew Rochester's status because the local council wanted to submit a joint Medway bid for Chatham, Strood and Rochester.

 

[NorthOxonian]

The biggest one for me is Guildford, since it meets so many of the traditional criteria (and is a long established centre). It has a cathedral, it has a university, and it is a major hub for its county. And the main football club is even called "City"!

You could also apply a very similar logic to Reading (it doesn't have a cathedral but AIUI that was because the Abbey meant no-one thought there was any need for another major ecclesiastical hub). Other county hubs which are big historic places like Northampton and Bedford also have fairly good claims in my view, though sadly Milton Keynes influencing the region and swiping a lot of the shops and influence probably means neither will get it (especially now MK is a bona fide city).

I'd also have some left field picks. Newport on the Isle of Wight very distinctly feels like a city - a small one, but a city. The place feels far more important than you'd think based on population alone (as the main hub for the Island). Dumfries is such an important and undisputed regional centre (even if a little faded) that I was genuinely surprised that they picked Dunfermline over it for Scotland's 8th city. And finally, on a very different note, I'd like to see another London borough promoted to city - either Southwark because of how integral it is to South London's history and identity, or Croydon because it is a somewhat semi-detached centre of its own (more so than anywhere else in London IMO) with a population greater than most actual cities and a skyline to match.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could also apply a very similar logic to Reading (it doesn't have a cathedral but AIUI that was because the Abbey meant no-one thought there was any need for another major ecclesiastical hub). Other county hubs which are big historic places like Northampton and Bedford also have fairly good claims in my view, though sadly Milton Keynes influencing the region and swiping a lot of the shops and influence probably means neither will get it (especially now MK is a bona fide city).

Neither Northampton nor Bedford have any sort of feel of cities. Bedford is a small town which I like some parts of (though parts of the centre are downright rough), while Northampton is just a dump that has almost nothing going for it at all bar being a slightly cheaper place to live to commute to London from than MK. Aylesbury, another nondescript and slightly rough commuter town, can complete the set if you like.

MK was designed as a new city, and has finally become the new City, though admittedly in some ways it still acts like somewhere a fair bit smaller. It has brought prosperity to the region as a whole.

 

[Gaelan]

The way the UK does cities has always felt silly to me. In the US (or at least the part I'm from), "city" has administrative connotations, so many small towns are legally cities. But we are entirely content to ignore the legal status, and in conversation we just say "town" or "city" as feels appropriate for the character of the place. It's always seemed quite silly to me that Brits insist on calling what is quite clearly a city a "town" unless and until the monarch says so.

 

[Cross City]

Blackburn, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Swindon, Penzance, Newquay, Blackpool, Crawley.

 

[AM9]

The way the UK does cities has always felt silly to me. In the US (or at least the part I'm from), "city" has administrative connotations, so many small towns are legally cities. But we are entirely content to ignore the legal status, and in conversation we just say "town" or "city" as feels appropriate for the character of the place. It's always seemed quite silly to me that Brits insist on calling what is quite clearly a city a "town" unless and until the monarch says so.

Does it matter whether a locality is called a town or a city then? Why get hung up on how they are created, the involvement of the crown is a mere historic relic. The alternative is to make it a purely political affair, like the award to Southen-on-Sea, to commemorate a murdered MP.

 

[PTR 444]

Bournemouth & Poole
Reading
Guildford
Middlesbrough
Bolton
Swindon
Northampton
Shrewsbury
Ipswich
Medway

 

[Magdalia]

The way the UK does cities has always felt silly to me.

What has evolved is an occasional beauty contest, usually linked to a big Royal event.

Towns that don't have City status spend a lot of money on consultants and PR which would be better used on public services. But it keeps those consultants and PR people in well paid jobs.

The most recent example was at the Platinum Jubilee last year and was discussed here.

Eight new cities to mark Platinum Jubilee

As per the title, 8 new cities have been announced including Stanley in The Falklands & Douglas in the Isle of Man. Other towns listed in the BBC article are: Milton Keynes Dunfermline Bangor Wrexham Colchester Doncaster (and living in a town that had bid for City Status in this latest round...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[swt_passenger]

The way the UK does cities has always felt silly to me. In the US (or at least the part I'm from), "city" has administrative connotations, so many small towns are legally cities. But we are entirely content to ignore the legal status, and in conversation we just say "town" or "city" as feels appropriate for the character of the place. It's always seemed quite silly to me that Brits insist on calling what is quite clearly a city a "town" unless and until the monarch says so.

There are also quite a few US states where any “place” can be called a city, and some where the minimum population of a city is no more than 500. A small village in UK could be a US city, so comparison with what they do seems meaningless.

 

[Gaelan]

There are also quite a few US states where any “place” can be called a city, and some where the minimum population of a city is no more than 500. A small village in UK could be a US city, so comparison with what they do seems meaningless.

My point is that, in the US, the official designation is irrelevant - nobody goes around calling 500-person settlements cities, regardless of what the sign on the way in says.

I think this approach of ignoring the official designation and using the appropriate term translates perfectly well to the UK!

 

[Cross City]

There are also quite a few US states where any “place” can be called a city, and some where the minimum population of a city is no more than 500. A small village in UK could be a US city, so comparison with what they do seems meaningless.

I always looked at us 'cities' as being analogous with UK council areas. It's just a way for them to separate areas to run their own local government, refuse collection, policing, etc etc.

 

[nw1]

Just agreeing with others really:

Guildford - the cultural and commercial centre of Surrey, and with a cathedral and university. It seems a curious anomaly that Guildford is not a city; most other similarly-sized places with a cathedral are.

Reading - the capital, cultural and commercial centre of Berkshire.

Bournemouth - the cultural and commercial centre of Dorset; university; large population; popular tourist destination.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blackburn, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Swindon, Penzance, Newquay, Blackpool, Crawley.

Bournemouth yes. Reading as others have said yes.

Middlesbrough might provide a much needed economic boost.

Blackburn is a medium sized town and acts like one, Swindon similarly, Penzance and Newquay are pushing it (though to be fair so's Truro and it is one). Blackpool, you must be joking. Crawley, definitely not.

 

[Peter0124]

Could Motherwell become a city? Decent transport links and has it's own postcode area.

 

[nw1]

There are also quite a few US states where any “place” can be called a city, and some where the minimum population of a city is no more than 500. A small village in UK could be a US city, so comparison with what they do seems meaningless.

The City of Signal Hill, a tiny enclave surrounded by Long Beach, Southern California, is a good example.

Not sure if it is a city but I always found Plymouth, California (some way ESE of Sacramento, out in the Gold Rush hills) to be a little amusing. It's signposted a good 50 miles down the road (Highway 49) yet when you get there, basically it's a small village! Yet, in a curious anomaly, it remains the only place called "Plymouth" that I have ever passed through.

Presumably the Devonian name was by design, as much of that area - the foothills of the Sierra Nevada - does contain lush, green, rolling hills and is not unlike Devon in appearance.

 

[RailAleFan]

Reading briefly self declared itself a city something like 20 years or so ago. Bus destination displays definitely showed "City Centre" and I'm pretty sure many road signs were changed as well. Went on for about 3 or 4 months and then all of a sudden it all disappeared overnight..!

 

[MikeWM]

Ipswich has a rather good case, in my opinion. Don't think there is anywhere else in the East of England that qualifies (that isn't already a city).

Not sure if it is a city but I always found Plymouth, California (some way ESE of Sacramento, out in the Gold Rush hills) to be a little amusing. It's signposted a good 50 miles down the road (Highway 49) yet when you get there, basically it's a small village!

Sounds rather like the semi-infamous road sign you encounter when leaving Cambridge via the M11 roundabout at Trumpington, that tells you that the A10 is for the small village of Puckeridge (as opposed to say the large town of Royston). Apparently that was picked as a primary destination because it is pretty much half-way between Cambridge and London - though it's been dropped as a primary destination now, so if the signs are ever replaced that will go away.

 

[PTR 444]

Just agreeing with others really:

Guildford - the cultural and commercial centre of Surrey, and with a cathedral and university. It seems a curious anomaly that Guildford is not a city; most other similarly-sized places with a cathedral are.

One thing that should be noted is that Guildford Cathedral is only 62 years old, having been completed in 1961. Even so, I doubt that should influence whether Guildford should become a city or not. It certainly has a large population, strong economy and hub location in Surrey which I believe is ideal for city status.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reading briefly self declared itself a city something like 20 years or so ago. Bus destination displays definitely showed "City Centre" and I'm pretty sure many road signs were changed as well. Went on for about 3 or 4 months and then all of a sudden it all disappeared overnight..!

The term "city" has always been used in Milton Keynes, but it was to be fair designated a New City by the Commission for the New Towns, a term that just means a big new town (it's much much bigger than any of the others) and didn't confer status.

Curiously in most traditional cities* you ask for "town please" on the bus if going to the centre, whereas in MK you always asked for "city please" and the normal term for going there is "up the city" (the up making sense as it's the highest point in the surrounding area). Though that may be to distinguish from going to a local town centre e.g. Wolverton or Bletchley.

* Other than ones where you ask for the fare e.g. "two pounds please" which was traditionally the case in Manchester.

 

[Herefordian]

Northampton (Not biased, honest ).
Reading.
Gateshead.

I would say Luton, but I don't think it feels like a city.

 

[PTR 444]

I’m just wondering if there are any London Boroughs that could pass as cities in their own right if they were administratively separate from the capital. Croydon and Kingston spring to mind.

 

[geoffk]

Just agreeing with others really:

Guildford - the cultural and commercial centre of Surrey, and with a cathedral and university. It seems a curious anomaly that Guildford is not a city; most other similarly-sized places with a cathedral are.

Reading - the capital, cultural and commercial centre of Berkshire.

Bournemouth - the cultural and commercial centre of Dorset; university; large population; popular tourist destination.

Similarly, Blackburn has a cathedral. At some time in the past, the main requirement of a city was having an Anglican cathedral but on that basis Leeds, Nottingham, Salford and Lancaster would not be cities. Should the criterion now be size and, if not, what should it be?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Similarly, Blackburn has a cathedral. At some time in the past, the main requirement of a city was having an Anglican cathedral but on that basis Leeds, Nottingham, Salford and Lancaster would not be cities. Should the criterion now be size and, if not, what should it be?

The criteria for new ones is that the King decides they can have it.

If you mean should we have criteria, I'm not sure we should - we don't have the same local Government concepts the US does which gives their cities their status. It's just ceremonial.

 

[DerekC]

The way the UK does cities has always felt silly to me. In the US (or at least the part I'm from), "city" has administrative connotations, so many small towns are legally cities. But we are entirely content to ignore the legal status, and in conversation we just say "town" or "city" as feels appropriate for the character of the place. It's always seemed quite silly to me that Brits insist on calling what is quite clearly a city a "town" unless and until the monarch says so.

My point is that, in the US, the official designation is irrelevant - nobody goes around calling 500-person settlements cities, regardless of what the sign on the way in says.

I think this approach of ignoring the official designation and using the appropriate term translates perfectly well to the UK!

Well, finding each other amusing is no bad thing. Whether or not anybody uses the terms, cities down to a population of 1 (Monowi, Nebraska) cause a wry smile from me anyway. And the King doesn't actually decide - it goes on Government recommendation.

 

[nw1]

I’m just wondering if there are any London Boroughs that could pass as cities in their own right if they were administratively separate from the capital. Croydon and Kingston spring to mind.

I suppose they are separate boroughs, as is Westminster, so technically I guess they could be even now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2023 ==

One thing that should be noted is that Guildford Cathedral is only 62 years old, having been completed in 1961. Even so, I doubt that should influence whether Guildford should become a city or not. It certainly has a large population, strong economy and hub location in Surrey which I believe is ideal for city status.

I thought I heard the Holy Trinity Church "used to" be the Cathedral before that but this is probably an urban legend.

I do remember Guildford Cathedral did look very new when I first saw it, which would have been summer 1979. So it indeed was - just 18 years old.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2023 ==

Sounds rather like the semi-infamous road sign you encounter when leaving Cambridge via the M11 roundabout at Trumpington, that tells you that the A10 is for the small village of Puckeridge (as opposed to say the large town of Royston). Apparently that was picked as a primary destination because it is pretty much half-way between Cambridge and London - though it's been dropped as a primary destination now, so if the signs are ever replaced that will go away.

I suppose the most extreme example is Scotch Corner, population 0 (as I believe it's literally the name for the junction).

I also remember Wetherby and Boroughbridge, also on the A1, being prominently signposted (this would have been in 1987 and 1988) and neither, IIRC, were particularly big.

 

[Gloster]

I thought I heard the Holy Trinity Church "used to" be the Cathedral before that but this is probably an urban legend.

I do remember Guildford Cathedral did look very new when I first saw it, which would have been summer 1979. So it indeed was - just 18 years old.

Holy Trinity was a pro-cathedral, a parish church temporarily serving as a cathedral, from the creation of the diocese in 1927 until the consecration of the cathedral in 1961. The cathedral was only completed in 1965 and I can remember it as looking very new when I saw it no more than a year or two later. (Although I was more interested in Plummer’s.)

 

[DerekC]

I suppose the most extreme example is Scotch Corner, population 0 (as I believe it's literally the name for the junction).

I also remember Wetherby and Boroughbridge, also on the A1, being prominently signposted (this would have been in 1987 and 1988) and neither, IIRC, were particularly big.

Think back (or imagine) to the A1 in pre-M1, pre-M6 days. Scotch Corner was (as its name implies), where coming from the south you turned off the A1 to take the A66 over Stainmore to get to southwestern Scotland (Glasgow in particular). And it's still an important waymark. And the A1 didn't (and still doesn't) go through anywhere bigger than Wetherby and Boroughbridge between Doncaster and Scotch Corner. (Sorry - Castleford should have a mention there). Mostly the signs these days say "The North" and then the name of the next town or waymark, which makes sense to me.

PS - Scotch Corner must have some residents, even if only the caretaker of the Holiday Inn - and the Vintage Inn next door - oh, and the owner of the Scotch Corner Caravan Park!