Totton

[Oracle]

WARNING: LARGISH FILES!

http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/totton1.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/totton2.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/totton3.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/totton4.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/totton5.jpg

Note the signals at either end of the Totton platforms: firstly looking west with the Junction Road crossing, with its GPL, and the starter with the two-position tree, plus a GPL? The other end shows the wrong-road starter, and in the distance the Down signal on the causeway.

I have also included a shot of what is left of the Eling Wharf branch crossing at High Street. RIP! There are still tracks extant in the roadways at Eling Wharf near the tide mill!
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/elingbranch1.jpg

 

[Tomnick]

If it was a fixed red light - what is the point of the 3 aspect signal at London end of down main at Totton...

Possibly included as part of a 'grand plan' for full bi-di working beyond Redbridge? Even if 772 wasn't a fixed red, it'd surely be approach controlled from red, due to the low speed crossover beyond, so the signal you mention wouldn't be able to display a green aspect anyway?

 

[Oracle]

I have edited out the surpulflous images as we are only interested in the gantry, with E776 and E774 [which seems to be as described with its theatre indicator], plus the Down signal...E782?

http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/causeway1.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/causeway2.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/causeway3.jpg

 

[Tomnick]

Excellent, thanks for the photos! Seems to confirm that 774's not capable of displaying a proceed aspect after all - I'm sure that's not a recent LED signal head! To allay Tom's worries about E786 being a three-aspect head...it's not .

 

[Oracle]

Firstly the Up or East views towards Redbridge Junction then the Down/West views showing the cross-over and the GPL, plus the through Goods with its GPLs.

UP:
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridgea.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridgeb.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridgec.jpg
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridgef.jpg
Note the Ground Frame!

http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridgeg.jpg
Signal E772 and cross-over

DOWN:
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridged.jpg
Thers is a 'LIMIT OF SHUNT' sign just visible before the foot crossing.
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/redbridgee.jpg
Signal E781

Not long after taking this photo the bubblecar that I had seen stabled in the bay at Southampton Central with 'LEICESTER' at the country end some days ago, went by with 'SUDBURY' at the Town end!

I have already asked to death about the bay at Southampton, and will not bore any more pants off members as I now know it is never used in passenger service. And why!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

E786 Up end of Totton is clearly a two-light signal. It can thus show a red or green? Trains can then be signalled towards 774, and then what happens please? It's a fixed red with...shunt signals allowing access to Redbridge Down [thence via the GPL and #-over to the Up]; the Through Goods with its GPL, and Depot Reception?

There is no evidence of any wrong-road reversible facility Down from Redbridge to Totton and thence to Totton Yard despite the signage at both stations! There is a Ground Frame round the corner for the #-over from the Up Romsey to the Down Romsey, with a 15 mph sign, and the track is used, but whom I have no idea!

 

[Tomnick]

E786 Up end of Totton is clearly a two-light signal. It can thus show a red or green? Trains can then be signalled towards 774, and then what happens please? It's a fixed red with...shunt signals allowing access to Redbridge Down [thence via the GPL and #-over to the Up]; the Through Goods with its GPL, and Depot Reception?

E786 is capable of showing either red or yellow - routing towards E774. This signal isn't capable of showing a proceed aspect, as we've established, but there are three shunt routes from the signal:

• Towards the down platform, routing to the GPL before the crossover - in this case, you'll get the two diagonal white lights and an 'X' in the theatre indicator.
• Towards the arrival/departure line, routing to a GPL on that line - 'two white' with an 'H' in the theatre indicator.
• Towards the group (of two?) 'depot reception sidings' - same again, with an 'R' this time.

There is no evidence of any wrong-road reversible facility Down from Redbridge to Totton and thence to Totton Yard despite the signage at both stations! There is a Ground Frame round the corner for the #-over from the Up Romsey to the Down Romsey, with a 15 mph sign, and the track is used, but whom I have no idea!

Indeed, the Up line appears to be not reversibly signalled - the 'limit of shunt' board on one of your photographs confirms this! I'm not so sure about the ground frame - Simsig suggests that the crossover on the Romsey line is part of a signalled route between E862 (last signal on the Up Test Valley) and the down platform/A&D line/reception sidings, as with E774 (the difference being, of course, that E862 is also able to show a proceed aspect, routing towards the up platform) - Quail shows no ground frame there either.

Edit: a diagram will follow shortly

 

[Tom]

We're being treated with a special Tomnick diagram!

 

[GeoffM]

Yes, 786 is a two-aspect yellow/red signal and is automatic, though I suspect it only shows yellow when a route is set in rear from 982/780/782/784.

862 (on the Up Test Valley) also has a slotted sub, with the same three theatre indications as 774. The main route (to 772) has no route indication. The points (579) and the associated routes are worked from Eastleigh, not a ground frame.

Geoff M.

 

[Oracle]

I must pop along tomorrow and photo the signalling equipment, #-over and 862 which I am sure from memory is a sufficient distance from the Junction of course. I have a feeling and will check that there is a signal on the Down TV there as wel which must be correct? You can see the signalling equipment boxes etc. from ground level through a metal post fence as it is next to a rat run street but the overbridge on the A35 just to the west of the LDV garage gives an excellent bird's eye view of the whole caboodle. And the #-over is definitely facing from the Down TV to the Up TV and obviously facing Up to Down with that 15 mph -> board. I think I said somewhere erroneously to the opposite.

I have to confess I assumed it was a GF under cover as per Woolston and Netley, so thanks for the correction! However is it only used for Freightliners to gain access from the Up TV to the Through Goods or MT? I have never known it to be used to reverse passenger trains when engineering work is under way. It is as I said before clearly used regularly.

This is the 'LIMIT OF SHUNT' sign referred to:

 

[Tomnick]

That might help explain things a bit more clearly, for anyone confused by locations of signals. It's probably not totally correct, particularly as far as route indications etc. go around Totton...but it should give you the general idea.

I suspect E862 and the facing crossover on the Up Test Valley couldn't be used to reverse trains, in normal circumstances at least - there's no limit of shunt on that line to route towards, and the signal in rear (E866) is automatic.

Thanks again Geoff - expert explanation always appreciated!

 

[Oracle]

Thanks Tomnick! Poor Eling Tramway has long gone. 982 and 983 are still there. This is the site of the former junction. Note the remnant standing forlorn in the background!

There is no evidence of any tracks south of High Street crossing but there were some still in the undergrowth on the station side. As I said by Eling Creek there are still several old railway tracks in situ and this suggests that there was an extensive network at one time when the Wharf was in full swing. There has been published a photo of the last train, Class 47-powered.

 

[TheSlash]

Automotive Historian. My job often takes me to the Totton area and i sometimes wonder about the Ealing tramway. I have walked from Ashurst to Millbrook, but i am never really sure where everything is as i go through Totton.
I know 2 ways of getting to Totton by road from the east {we use the yard the country side of the level crossing}. Basically, coming off at the bottom of the M271, you turn right at the roundabout, up the slip road towards the traffic lights with the traffic cameras to catch people jumping the red lights, then you join the dual carriageway before the left hand lane slops down and under the right hand lane, to take you through Totton town centre. Then you go through the town centre and turn left at the Esso garage, down past ASDA and across the LC.
The other way is the same until you come up the slip road from the roundabout at the bottom of the M271, when instead of taking the left hand lane, you take the right hand lane, where you fly over the left hand lane and then i think you turn right somewhere, which takes you along a road that passes the Swan pub, through the high street and brings you out on the south side of Totton level crossing

 

[Oracle]

Noted! The bumpy, lumpy, dual carriageway is the Totton and Eling bypass and has been in existence for well over 50 years. On the left as you go over the railway was the site of a huge Asphalt/Tarmac plant which has gone now but was extremely busy in its day. Then you go over what you realise is a railway bridge. That was the Eling Tramway or Eling Wharf branch which was single and came off at a trailing junction between Totton platform end and the Junction Road crossing. It curved sharply and crossed High Street at a small manual crossing and then went into an industrial wharf/docks area at one time. You can indeed get to Totton the ways you suggest but if you go to the Mercedes-Benz garage roundabout then go back and then turn left into High Street and then left into Junction Road, you may avoid getting held up on the busy crossing. Carry on a bit further instead down High Street and you can see the remnants of the crossing. Totton station is tucked away, like Redbridge, down narrow streets. One way is turn left in High Street just after the old crossing. The other side is down off a narrow street on the A36 near the Suzuki garage.

 

[ChrisM]

There is actually, the SO (Q) Soton MT - Marchwood and return stored freightliner flats will run wrong line into Maritime on the return from Totton as there is no other access to MT from the west, would have to go to Millbrook and run round.

Never knew that.
The only working i have told about is the MO which see's a L/E move from Maritime to Marchwood and return with the flats which go to Millbrook before the engine (believe a 57 working) returns to Maritime,none of which needs to run 'wrong line'.

 

[Hentis]

Signal E774 Down Main reverse direction is a 1 aspect? signal on the reverse of the the down BML main ( you are all probaly aware of that

• 
  Position light signal with theatre indication R takes you into the Depot reception siding.
  
  Position light signal with theatre indication H takes you into the Southhampton Mairtime reception line.
  
  Position light signal with theatre indication X keeps you onto the down main to ground signla 974 (Northend of Redbridge platform 2)

Bear in mind there is a 4 aspect signal # E785 a few meters before the Bournemouth road (A35) bridge on the down line after you go under E774's gantry on the down line.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Hentis

 

[Oracle]

This shows the three Totton north end signals: note E785 on the causeway in the background:

This is the view posted above:
http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/causeway3.jpg

Is there booked use of the Up Test Valley #-over to the Down just before Redbridge Junction as it is clearly used...by FL trains for Maritime?

 

[GeoffM]

Doing a query on a 2005 timetable, I've found the following non-definitive list of (a) trains from Totton via the Down into Southampton MCT; and (b) trains from Romsey via 579 crossover into MCT:

4B32 MO Marchwood FLT, arr 1022 (a)
4B34 MO Marchwood FLT, arr 1212 (a)
4B38 MO Fawley Esso, arr 1329 (a)
0V36 SX Westbury Down Yard, arr 1311 (b)

Geoff M.

 

[Oracle]

Camera is now scheduled! Cheers for that!

 

[GeoffM]

Oh, I wasn't expecting you to rely on that information! If I get a chance, I'll look up the current timetable.

Geoff M.

 

[Oracle]

Cheers!

 

[Oracle]

I wondered last night if there was somethign seriously wrong with Totton's Junction Road level-crossing! The gates were down way, way, ahead of any trains at one time. On the way back the gates opened, let a few through then shut again. We waitied for three, yes three trains, and then they still did not go up..we thought that there might be a fourth but then the gates lifted!

 

[GeoffM]

Probably just a keen signaller, getting the barriers down in plenty of time. I sat at Canley level crossing (now gone) and waited for 3 down trains to pass, followed by one up train. All the down trains stopped at Coventry as well!

Regarding timetables, it seems there are up to 12 a day now that go RCL at Redbridge, some from Totton, other freightliners from the Romsey direction. I haven't had time to look any further though. Some of those 12 might be certain days of the week though, as I say, I haven't had time to check.

Geoff M.

 

[Oracle]

Excuse this ignorant bod but what does 'RCL' stand for? ...something Line?

 

[TheSlash]

Totton level crossing is best avoided during the peak

 

[GeoffM]

I was hoping you would know! RCL is the line code which appears to be specified for all trains from/to the north/west going via the arrival/departure line at Redbridge.

The timing and coding rules probably specifies it (can be found by Googling).

Geoff M.

 

[Oracle]

I firstly thought RCL = Reception Line? Now I believe it is an ELR?

 

[Tomnick]

Not an ELR, and I doubt timetables would refer to it as a line code anyway - ELRs generally apply to geographical routes rather than individual lines. Reception Line does make a lot of sense!

 

[TheSlash]

Is it Romsey - Chandlers Ford? Instead of going left at Worting junction and down BML1, they could go right, round to Salisbury and Lavistock junction, then down to Romsey and choose they're route to Southampton from there {whether they go across to Chandlers Ford and Eastleigh, or straight down to Redbridge}
I'll get me coat

 

[GeoffM]

Just looked it up - RCL is reception line. Odd as most other regions use REC. But then the Southern never did conform to anything else!

Geoff M.

 

[Tomnick]

Is it Romsey - Chandlers Ford? Instead of going left at Worting junction and down BML1, they could go right, round to Salisbury and Lavistock junction, then down to Romsey and choose they're route to Southampton from there {whether they go across to Chandlers Ford and Eastleigh, or straight down to Redbridge}
I'll get me coat

ECR is Eastleigh East Jn. - Romsey Jn. via Chandlers Ford, according to Quail. And still not likely to appear in any timetables .