Totally confused by Farringdon: please help!

[bunglejemson]

This is my first post here but I'm hoping people can help with a problem that has been bugging me for several years now!

I live in Hurst Green in Surrey, but I work in London, at Farringdon.

I can get the train to Farringdon by using Southern Trains to East Croydon, then changing to get the First Capital Connect train from there.

Alternatively, I can get the Southern train direct to either London Victoria or London Bridge, then get the tube from there (either Victoria Line or Northern line respectively, then Hammersmith/City/Circle/Metropolitan line).

Like most people in London, I travel about town using the tube for work so I appreciate the flexibility of a 'London Terminals' train ticket which allows me to go home from any London terminal, as I can get a direct train from either London Victoria or London Bridge. Normally though, I get the FCC from Farringdon to East Croydon (which doesn't go via London Bridge), then change to get a Southern train home, but often this is not an option because trains from Farringdon stop running relatively early in the evening due to engineering works.

The problem I've got is quite complicated.

I can either buy a 'London Terminals' ticket, or I can buy a ticket to 'Farringdon'. Both tickets cost exactly the same. However, if I buy a London Terminals ticket, it's not valid to Farringdon as Farringdon is not a 'London terminal'. If I buy a Farringdon ticket, then I have to travel home via Farringdon and have to pay a tube fare to get back to Farringdon from wherever I am in London, even if I'm 2 minutes from Victoria or London Bridge, where I can get a direct train home from. It doesn't make sense.

That is not really my primary issue, however. Recently, my station hasn't let me buy a 'Farringdon' ticket and so I have had to buy a 'London Terminals' ticket instead.

In the morning, therefore, I get the train to either London Bridge or Victoria, then get the tube from there. But on the way home I just want to jump on at Farringdon and get the train from there rather than having to travel 45 minutes on the tube to catch a train.

My problem is that I can't do this! My train ticket ('London Terminals') isn't valid, so the only way to get into Farringdon is to swipe in using my Oyster card. But then I've got a bigger problem because my train goes Farringdon >> Blackfriars >> East Croydon, which doesn't have an Oyster card reader. So, I can swipe into Farringdon but can't swipe out at East Croydon, meaning I get stung by the full day penalty fare on Oyster for not swiping out. And all of this whilst my ticket costs the same price as a Farringdon ticket anyway!

I don't understand why Farringdon commuters are being penalised in this way. We are being forced to choose between flexibility getting home (London Terminals) vs being able to access the station (Farringdon) to actually get the train. It's like we're caught in a tussle between FCC and TFL and we're losing out. Both tickets cost exactly the same price, but if you buy a London Terminals ticket you are being forced to pay a disproportionate amount extra just to get from Farringdon >> London Terminals, even though my train doesn't actually go via any London terminals anyway!

Am I making any sense? Can you see why I am confused? What should I do - do I get a London Terminals ticket and pay extra for the tube to get to Farringdon or get a ticket to Farringdon and not be able to get home from Victoria or London Bridge, even though I pay the same price as others?

Your help would be appreciated!

 

[westcoaster]

Have a look at this thread it's about what your after,
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28313

A London terminals ticket is valid as fas a city tl, from the south and st pancras from the north, it's only a 5 minute walk between city and farringdon.

 

[bunglejemson]

But City Thameslink is 20 minutes walk from my work; Farringdon is only 5. More importantly, I can get a seat if I get on at Farringdon, whereas there are few seats left by Thameslink. Even more importantly, why should I have to go out of my way to City Thameslink when I could get it at Farringdon?

I'm not sure the other thread does answer my question: what should I do? Are you suggesting that I get a London Terminals ticket and walk to/from City Thameslink each day?

Why - given it's exactly the same cost as a London Terminals ticket (as in, to the penny) - doesn't FCC/TFL/whoever's in charge - just accept London Terminals tickets at Farringdon?

 

[cuccir]

Could you make use of a season ticket? These allow for flexible travel as they are valid on any journey between the two stops on your ticket. For £49.20 a week you could get one to Farringdon, and you could use this to London Bridge (not so sure about Victoria?) or £64.60 a week to London with a full zone 1-6 travelcard. Savings are greater if you buy the ticket for longer validity

 

[island]

Not really the answer to your question, but East Croydon has Oyster on the gates, you could always go out and use your paper ticket to go back in. Doesn't really solve anything though because you'll be charged a zone 1-5 single...

 

[37 418]

Why - given it's exactly the same cost as a London Terminals ticket (as in, to the penny) - doesn't FCC/TFL/whoever's in charge - just accept London Terminals tickets at Farringdon?[/QUOTE]

Because Farringdon is LULs jurisdiction whereas 'London Terminals' are the TOCs' jurisdiction.

My solution would be a Hurst Green - Zone 1/2 ticket.

 

[swt_passenger]

If you want the flexibility of going TO Farringdon and back FROM 'anywhere in central London' would you be better off with a ticket from home to 'zone U1'?

AIUI that should allow you to Farringdon, and on return make a tube journey from anywhere in zone 1 to Victoria or wherever is convenient, working the barriers OK in both directions.

 

[yorkie]

If I buy a Farringdon ticket, then I have to travel home via Farringdon and have to pay a tube fare to get back to Farringdon from wherever I am in London, even if I'm 2 minutes from Victoria or London Bridge, where I can get a direct train home from. It doesn't make sense.

What makes you think that?

I see no reason at all why you cannot use a Farringdon ticket from London Bridge, it's "starting short" which is allowed!

That is not really my primary issue, however. Recently, my station hasn't let me buy a 'Farringdon' ticket and so I have had to buy a 'London Terminals' ticket instead.

I would take that up with FCC.

But then I've got a bigger problem because my train goes Farringdon >> Blackfriars >> East Croydon, which doesn't have an Oyster card reader.

Yes, East Croydon does, all stations in the Zones should do. But if you are already in posession of a ticket that is valid from Blackfriars to East Croydon, perhaps you could touch out there? You may be able to get back on the same train if you're lucky, depending on where the readers are.

Can you see why I am confused?

It sounds like you have been given awful advice. Who has told you this?

You can find out correct information here, you're at the right place now!

What should I do - do I get a London Terminals ticket and pay extra for the tube to get to Farringdon or get a ticket to Farringdon and not be able to get home from Victoria or London Bridge, even though I pay the same price as others?

Get a ticket from Farringdon, and start 'short' at London Bridge (or Blackfriars) when appropriate, is what I'd do.

 

[barrykas]

Yes, East Croydon does, all stations in the Zones should do. But if you are already in posession of a ticket that is valid from Blackfriars to East Croydon, perhaps you could touch out there? You may be able to get back on the same train if you're lucky, depending on where the readers are.

Readers at East Croydon are only on the main gateline, and there's no manual gate, so no standalone validator up there either.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[mathmo]

You could buy the ticket to Farringdon online the night before and pick it up from the ticket machine in the morning if the station won't let you buy it there (though they should): go to http://www.eastcoast.co.uk and enter "Farringdon Und" as the destination. Though I would encourage you to use a season ticket (as suggested by cuccir) if you travel at all regularly: a £49.20 weekly ticket is cheaper than just three Anytime Returns (though not including any Tube travel), and allows unlimited journeys between any points on the route, so you could unquestionably get on at Blackfriars or London Bridge if they were nearer, as yorkie notes. (You probably couldn't get on at Victoria as it's not on the route between Farringdon and Hurst Green.)

 

[greatkingrat]

The solution is to buy a ticket to West Hampstead.

SDR Hurst Green - London Terminals 16.90
SDR Hurst Green - W Hampstead Stns rte +Any Permitted 14.00

This is valid both via Farringdon and via Victoria so you can break/start your journey at either station.

The London fare is set by Southern, while the West Hampstead fare is FCC which may explain the discrepancy in pricing.

 

[MikeWh]

The solution is to buy a ticket to West Hampstead.

SDR Hurst Green - London Terminals 16.90
SDR Hurst Green - W Hampstead Stns rte +Any Permitted 14.00

This is valid both via Farringdon and via Victoria so you can break/start your journey at either station.

The London fare is set by Southern, while the West Hampstead fare is FCC which may explain the discrepancy in pricing.

That's a great spot, greatkingrat. I wonder how many other routes from the south this might apply to? In particular, I wonder whether it might get round the issue of Kent - London Terminals not allowing travel to City Thameslink via HS1?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

That's a great spot, greatkingrat.

Agreed!


+1

 

[greatkingrat]

I've played around a bit more and this anomaly seems to work for most Southern stations eg.

SDR BRIGHTON - LONDON TERMINALS rte FCC ONLY 34.00
SDR BRIGHTON - LONDON TERMINALS rte Any Permitted 43.20
SDR BRIGHTON - W HAMPSTEAD STNS rte +Any Permitted 36.50

SDR GATWICK AIRPORT - LONDON TERMINALS rte NOT GATWICK EXP 20.50
SDR GATWICK AIRPORT - W HAMPSTEAD STNS rte +Any Permitted 20.50

Doesn't work for any SWT or SET stations I have tried.

 

[barrykas]

That's a great spot, greatkingrat. I wonder how many other routes from the south this might apply to? In particular, I wonder whether it might get round the issue of Kent - London Terminals not allowing travel to City Thameslink via HS1?

Fine for a day ticket, but there's no season ticket rates showing for that journey...

Cheers,

Barry

 

[yorkie]

The likely cause is disproportionate fare rises by Southern, I'd have thought, if it only works for flows set by Southern.

Similar problems occur in other parts of the country such as in the North of England on CrossCountry (XC) and, to a lesser extent, TransPennine Express and East Coast increasing their fares at disproportionately higher levels than Northern. e.g. York-Doncaster SSR costs MORE than York-Mexborough SOR (a few stops further along the line) which is completely and utterly bonkers.

 

[button_boxer]

That's a great spot, greatkingrat. I wonder how many other routes from the south this might apply to? In particular, I wonder whether it might get round the issue of Kent - London Terminals not allowing travel to City Thameslink via HS1?

It was established in a previous thread that the way to do this is to get a +HS season from Kent to farringdon, which would allow you to get to City from both sides. Coming via HS1 you go all the way to your destination (farringdon) and then start a return journey via the classic route, stopping short at City.