Total signal failure Crewe last Monday

[ole man]

On Monday night at approx 22.30,every signal in the Crewe PSB area went down causing 3+ hours delay to over 15 trains and cancelling over 30,this was caused by the local travellers that had arrived days earlier robbing cable and also a faulty SSP switch at Bbasford hall.

Something must be done about cable theft, using Smartwater is not enough of a deterrent to them. Are the btp doing enough,they must of known that the travellers were in town and surely must of upped there patrols in the area?:roll:

 

[eMeS]

The copper etc. wouldn't be stolen if there wasn't a ready market for it.

It's been going on for years, since well before I retired in 2000, but I think then it was industry where I worked, and construction sites that bore the brunt of the thefts, and these rarely had the immediate effects of a theft on the transport system. Our local police warned us not to even consider approaching or stopping the thieves, as they were likely to be armed.

 

[All Line Rover]

I was there last night with my mother, waiting for the 23:14 service to Whitchurch. The signals went at 23:10 precisely! We could see the train waiting right outside the station!!! :roll:

The staff were absolutely clueless about what was going on. Dad came to pick us up after midnight as it was clear that we wouldn't be moving anytime soon. Some elderly ladies were also travelling to Whitchurch so we took them with us!

 

[NightatLaira]

about a month ago an MP raised the issue of cable theft in PMQs (I forget which MP it was and which party). But apparently Cameron's going to draw up a white paper for parliamentary approval to reform the outdated laws on the licensing of scrap metal dealers and electric melting services. Basically all scrap metal will need to carry proof that it has been legitimately obtained (which is not the case at the moment).

 

[merlodlliw]

They have found a way of getting rid of Smartwater, the numbers of gates around here agri & the like stolen is enormous, a visit to most scrapyards will show no checks are made, payment in cash as usual,no forwarding address.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the Manchester Metrolink system, not many weeks ago, the first section extension on the South Manchester line to St Werberghs Road was opened after testing delays with much publicity.

The very next day saw the service totally out of action.....due to cable theft!! :roll:

 

[boing_uk]

How much would that have cost Network Rail in terms of delay minutes compensation?

 

[GB]

How much would that have cost Network Rail in terms of delay minutes compensation?

Usually you are looking into the hundreads of thousands area.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was there last night with my mother, waiting for the 23:14 service to Whitchurch. The signals went at 23:10 precisely! We could see the train waiting right outside the station!!! :roll:

The staff were absolutely clueless about what was going on. Dad came to pick us up after midnight as it was clear that we wouldn't be moving anytime soon. Some elderly ladies were also travelling to Whitchurch so we took them with us!

As frustrating as it is for passengers, front line staff are often the last to know what is going on and by time information is filtered down the plan usually changes.

As for the train waiting outside there is little that can be done during such incidents. The train won't be able to move if the signalling is completely lost so its a case of waiting it out, detraining or waiting for staff to clip the points.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On Monday night at approx 22.30,every signal in the Crewe PSB area went down causing 3+ hours delay to over 15 trains and cancelling over 30,this was caused by the local travellers that had arrived days earlier robbing cable and also a faulty SSP switch at Bbasford hall.

Something must be done about cable theft, using Smartwater is not enough of a deterrent to them. Are the btp doing enough,they must of known that the travellers were in town and surely must of upped there patrols in the area?:roll:

It had nothing to do with travellers or cable theft.

 

[TDK]

On Monday night at approx 22.30,every signal in the Crewe PSB area went down causing 3+ hours delay to over 15 trains and cancelling over 30,this was caused by the local travellers that had arrived days earlier robbing cable and also a faulty SSP switch at Bbasford hall.

Something must be done about cable theft, using Smartwater is not enough of a deterrent to them. Are the btp doing enough,they must of known that the travellers were in town and surely must of upped there patrols in the area?:roll:

Have you any evidence for the cause of the signalling failure?

 

[Noguidedbus]

about a month ago an MP raised the issue of cable theft in PMQs (I forget which MP it was and which party). But apparently Cameron's going to draw up a white paper for parliamentary approval to reform the outdated laws on the licensing of scrap metal dealers and electric melting services. Basically all scrap metal will need to carry proof that it has been legitimately obtained (which is not the case at the moment).

True. I bought a decrepit house 2 years back. We had to start again with the plumbing, and I weighed the old pipework and cylinder in (£75, £3.90 per kilo). Went back a few weeks ago with the leftovers and some other stuff, by which time copper was £6 a kg. I was paid in cash, no names, no ID, and this is an honest foundry. Goodness knows what a bent one would do. For the longer term, I guess the only answer is to switch to fibre optics. That stuff has no scrap value. But that is the very long term, and there will still be some metal around. Maybe operating signals at 25kV would help?

 

[boing_uk]

Maybe operating signals at 25kV would help?[/QUOTE

I doubt it. One guy from UU was telling me how they are regularly going to cable faults on the 33kv network, where it is exposed (like at bridges and pipe tracks etc). Sometimes the theives are successful at removing entire lengths of solid copper cable - other times not so.

In the last six months in the town where I work, sub stations have been targetted three times near the town centre, with cable being stolen. The sad fact is, the length of cable/equipment stolen is rarely enough to make double digits, but it costs a fortune in time and disruption.

In these cases I am a firm beleiver in the Sharia way of dealing with theives. Or Darwin.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It had nothing to do with travellers or cable theft.

Could you let us know what was the actual reason, please.

 

[GB]

It was put down to a faulty 650v power cable.

 

[Arriva158]

On the 16th August i went on the 2135 Manchester Picc - Shrewsbury and we got to Crewe at 2208 and then got held at Crewe until 2250 because of Gresty Bridge signals failing, was a pain but it seems to happen quite a lot?

 

[TomBoyRacer]

this was caused by the local travellers that had arrived days earlier robbing cable and also a faulty SSP switch at Bbasford hall.

Where did you hear this from?

Maybe operating signals at 25kV would help?

I don't think this is safe, and wouldn't be practical.

Basically all scrap metal will need to carry proof that it has been legitimately obtained (which is not the case at the moment).

I'm surprised this didn't happen a long time ago. Remove the incentive and the theft will cease. If scrap metal merchants complain about the impact to their businesses then it's probably worth pointing out how much damage lack of regulation has caused. Pales into insignificance really.

 

[Madge Wildfire]

Where did you hear this from?



I don't think this is safe, and wouldn't be practical.



I'm surprised this didn't happen a long time ago. Remove the incentive and the theft will cease. If scrap metal merchants complain about the impact to their businesses then it's probably worth pointing out how much damage lack of regulation has caused. Pales into insignificance really.

There is an e-petition on the Government website at -

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is an e-petition on the Government website at -

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406

The number of signatures on this e-petition has suddenly risen to 4195.

 

[merlodlliw]

One simple way of stopping theft is, pay everyone by Cheque or electronic means, at the moment the ones who do the stealing are paid in cash,which is legal, all scrap metal merchants will ask how you want to be paid. However the ruthless ones will get around it, as not all scrap metal merchants are ................

However any change to the act will take at least a year, with a lot of consultation first.

 

[ole man]

At certain places there are ssp's (signal supply pionts) these can be used to power the signalling from the overhead line,obviously the 25 kv is transformed down to the voltage signals use 650v, Ive operated these switches at madeley yard

 

[TDK]

At certain places there are ssp's (signal supply pionts) these can be used to power the signalling from the overhead line,obviously the 25 kv is transformed down to the voltage signals use 650v, Ive operated these switches at madeley yard

So it wasn't the fault originally posted then, Madeley Yard? Where is that

 

[ole man]

Yes it was the original fault,but when network rail went to use the ssp it would'nt work, it had been damaged due to the last personnel using it and not reporting it.

Madeley yard south of crewe on the wcml,easy to find,head for newcastle under lyme from crewe

 

[RichW1]

wouldn't ertms solve this issue?! Bring it on faster the better. We should have some form of cab based signalling by now bypassing these failures. I'm assuming ertms wouldn't fail or be easy to steal physical objects of value from?!