Tornado April 24th 2010

[alexdodds]

Just looked on the UK Steam tours page and it shows that Tornado is going from York to Darlington via Newcastle and Sunderland and then Darlington.

I wonder how they are going to get a steam train through Sunderland station considering how low and narrow it is and without setting off the fire alarms. Sometimes I have wondered if they can get a steam train through Birmingham New Street

 

[Vulcan]

Just looked on the UK Steam tours page and it shows that Tornado is going from York to Darlington via Newcastle and Sunderland and then Darlington.

I wonder how they are going to get a steam train through Sunderland station considering how low and narrow it is and without setting off the fire alarms. Sometimes I have wondered if they can get a steam train through Birmingham New Street

The scarbrough spa express frequently set off the fire alarms at Leeds station.

 

[Ivo]

Is the Tornado ever likely to come down Bristol way...?

 

[Vulcan]

why do people say the Tornado? Its nameplate reads simply 'Tornado', therefore its name is simply 'Tornado', without a 'the'. Sorry it just annoys me slightly.

 

[EltonRoad]

This is akin to living on (say) London Road and calling it the London Road. That irks me as well.

Sorry, off topic.

 

[33056]

Is the Tornado ever likely to come down Bristol way...?

Already been! , based there (Barton Hill) for a few weeks last year.

Keep an eye on the A1 steam loco trust site for it's future plans.

 

[alexdodds]

The scarbrough spa express frequently set off the fire alarms at Leeds station.

They just set off the Inspector sands alarms no evacuation was needed i have seen a youtube clip of one comming in and the inspector sands message playing in the background.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

They just set off the Inspector sands alarms no evacuation was needed i have seen a youtube clip of one comming in and the inspector sands message playing in the background.

That is the fire alarm :roll:

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Lads, sure Grand Central HST's are just as smokey as any steam engine and they go daily to Sunderland without any problems

As for Tornado going to Bristol, well it will be there again this year. It will be part of the pool for this seasons Torbay Express programme. See www.torbayexpress.co.uk

 

[37401]

I havnt seen Tornado yet, ive got no excuse as its been at the SVR and been down Birmingham way too
gotta go see it on the tyne tornado

 

[2030720310]

does anyone else think £95 is a bit steep for only 1-2 hours of steam haulage and many more hours of (I presume) 67 haulage, or is it not aimed at the 'steam enthusiast' market?

 

[4SRKT]

does anyone else think £95 is a bit steep for only 1-2 hours of steam haulage and many more hours of (I presume) 67 haulage, or is it not aimed at the 'steam enthusiast' market?

I think it's a total rip-off. Why tours cost so much is something I can't get my head round. Pathfinder seem to have been taught a business lesson last year by people not booking for their highly-priced tours and ending up having to cancel them. A shame, but I can't help having a satisfied little smile and nod when nobody's looking.

Last year I went on the RPSI's Steam Enterprise from Whitehead to Dublin and back (about 260 miles), with 130 year old GS&WR 0-6-0 no 186 up to Dublin, and the mighty NCC 2-6-4T no 4 back north. This train was 5 mk IIs with no first class or dining or any of that, and it cost £25. Leaving aside the obvious question of the RPSI's commercial naïvete in charging so little (the train was packed), they must have been able to make this run at break even at least. Why then do promotors here ask a minimum £60+ for a train of 10+ coaches, essentially capable of pulling in at least 4 times the revenue before you even start to consider the extras from first class and premier dining? Somebody somewhere is taking a whacking great cut out of the revenue on this side of the water (Network Rail?).

 

[Drimnagh Road]

In short, I'd say there's two reasons 4SRKT why tours are cheaper over in Ireland. It is not as big a hobby over here, nowhere near as fact. The RPSI in the main cater for the day out brigade, families etc who want to experience a steam train. Therefore, no way would they get away with charging ridiculous prices.

Secondly, the RPSI and NIR (or IE in the case of Republic) are the only two bodies involved over here. RPSI approach the the railway operator concerned and request to run a train on a certain date. Drivers, timings etc is discused between the two.

Now look at the UK, you have the tour promoter, Network Rail, TOC, traction & rolling stock provider plus God knows who else in order to run a tour. All this adds to cost, plus with the likes of Chingfinder, they're trying to make a profit. With the RPSI in the main they want to run a tour to cover their costs, and perhaps rely from onboard sales to bolster the viability and put any profit back into the charity or future tours.

I'm not into kettles in the UK anyway, but I will say even if I was, there would be absoloute no way I would pay that sort of money for what is technically a brand new loco. If it was something like Mallard that had been returned to the mainline, I might and just might because of the loco it is consider parting with such money. Tornado to me is the equivalent of doing a 66 or a 201 on a railtour, and that is never.

 

[4SRKT]

In short, I'd say there's two reasons 4SRKT why tours are cheaper over in Ireland. It is not as big a hobby over here, nowhere near as fact. The RPSI in the main cater for the day out brigade, families etc who want to experience a steam train. Therefore, no way would they get away with charging ridiculous prices.

I agree, but the point being that in GB they'd have to charge higher prices, so it's not necessarily the tour operators being greedy. Although looking at the good value Spitfire seem able to provide, I'm sure that comes into it sometimes with certain other operators.

Secondly, the RPSI and NIR (or IE in the case of Republic) are the only two bodies involved over here. RPSI approach the the railway operator concerned and request to run a train on a certain date. Drivers, timings etc is discused between the two.

Now look at the UK, you have the tour promoter, Network Rail, TOC, traction & rolling stock provider plus God knows who else in order to run a tour. All this adds to cost, plus with the likes of Chingfinder, they're trying to make a profit. With the RPSI in the main they want to run a tour to cover their costs, and perhaps rely from onboard sales to bolster the viability and put any profit back into the charity or future tours.

Exactly. The bonkers structure of our railway drives up cost. This must be the same for any operator, not just tour operators, so the tour market could be used as an easy to understand example to explain to members of the public just why their day to day train travel is so bl**dy expensive!

 

[moonrakerz]

why do people say the Tornado? Its nameplate reads simply 'Tornado', therefore its name is simply 'Tornado', without a 'the'. Sorry it just annoys me slightly.

I get equally annoyed by people who refer to "THE" HMS Whatever and those weathermen who refer to "THE" Salisbury Plain :roll:

 

[Vulcan]

and the Sir Nigel Gresley. That doesn't even make any sence!

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Tornado has another booking with HF Railtours on Wednesday 14th of April, Crewe-Barrow-Carlisle-Settle-Blackburn-Crewe.

Cost £95 standard. Pathfinder the booking agents, details on www.pathfindertours.co.uk and www.hf-railtours.co.uk

I have to say, Tornado runs the risk of being out on the mainline too much this year and I doubt that this interest and popularity of a "new steam engine" can last forever at this level.

 

[mumrar]

I think it'll take some time for the novelty of a Class of loco that's been totally absent for 40 years. I'm going to continue the off topic hatred of having incorrect 'the' suffix by adding one of my own. I hate it when people referred to the boxer as Chris Eubanks. Back on topic, the tour does seem expensive, but you're effectively assisting the A1 Trust pay back a big loan taken out to finish the job (think it was about £850,000)

 

[Drimnagh Road]

At least this trip is steam hauled throughout unlike the UK Railtours one. If I was a kettle fan, then I could justify this. Its a bit like when deciding on diesel railtours, I would not part with £65 to be hauled by my favourite loco for just part of the trip with the rest in the hands of a 66.

 

[anteat]

Lads, sure Grand Central HST's are just as smokey as any steam engine and they go daily to Sunderland without any problems

As for Tornado going to Bristol, well it will be there again this year. It will be part of the pool for this seasons Torbay Express programme. See www.torbayexpress.co.uk

Yes GC's HST's are probably as bad for smoke as a kettle, thats why they depart the station with only one power car on. When they first ran there, they would depart with both PC's working and frequently set the fire alarms off

 

[4SRKT]

Tornado has another booking with HF Railtours on Wednesday 14th of April, Crewe-Barrow-Carlisle-Settle-Blackburn-Crewe.

Cost £95 standard. Pathfinder the booking agents, details on www.pathfindertours.co.uk and www.hf-railtours.co.uk

I have to say, Tornado runs the risk of being out on the mainline too much this year and I doubt that this interest and popularity of a "new steam engine" can last forever at this level.

I've never seen the attraction of a new steam loco at all. It's just a gimmick IYAM. It's not as though there is any shortage of preserved steam locos, and how many could have been restored and main line registered for the cost of building Tornado?

 

[Vulcan]

I've never seen the attraction of a new steam loco at all. It's just a gimmick IYAM. It's not as though there is any shortage of preserved steam locos, and how many could have been restored and main line registered for the cost of building Tornado?

Although its a tremendous piece of engineering, and shows what can be done with some determination, but it seems a strange thing to do when Blue Peter is stood out of ticket at Barrow Hill.

 

[theblackwatch]

Although its a tremendous piece of engineering, and shows what can be done with some determination, but it seems a strange thing to do when Blue Peter is stood out of ticket at Barrow Hill.

Blue Peter is nothing to do with the owners of the new A1, it has a different owner and is event a different class. A bit like comparing a laid up 47 with a Deltic!

 

[Vulcan]

Blue Peter is nothing to do with the owners of the new A1, it has a different owner and is event a different class. A bit like comparing a laid up 47 with a Deltic!

Yes I knew that, and of course another part of the reason is the people of the A1 trust wanted their own engine, which Blue Peter isn't. I also know Blue Peter and Tornado are different classes, but they are very similar, especially now Blue Peter has been repainted to match Tornado.

 

[4SRKT]

Just had a look at Pathfinder's website and it strikes me they could do with renaming themselves 'Tornado Tours'. Do they own shares in this thing or something? I have to say it makes the programme look a little repetitive when most of the tours are called 'The x Tornado' and feature said loco dor some or all of their length.

 

[theblackwatch]

Just had a look at Pathfinder's website and it strikes me they could do with renaming themselves 'Tornado Tours'. Do they own shares in this thing or something? I have to say it makes the programme look a little repetitive when most of the tours are called 'The x Tornado' and feature said loco dor some or all of their length.

The thing is, their Tornado tours fill, even at £95 std class. If a business has a choice of using a loco which consistantly fills trains, or one that is hit and miss (we have seen at least 4 diesel hauled Pathfinder trips postponed or cancelled due to lack of bookings in the last 1/4 of 2009), then it would be a strange choice to go for the latter in preference to the first.

 

[4SRKT]

The thing is, their Tornado tours fill, even at £95 std class. If a business has a choice of using a loco which consistantly fills trains, or one that is hit and miss (we have seen at least 4 diesel hauled Pathfinder trips postponed or cancelled due to lack of bookings in the last 1/4 of 2009), then it would be a strange choice to go for the latter in preference to the first.

Sadly commercial logic seems to dictate everything, and drag it all down to the lowest common denominator. Hence music promotors would for the same reason doubtless rather have JLS on the bill than Sonic Youth, and any true lover of music (and music itself) is the loser.

 

[A60K]

Sadly commercial logic seems to dictate everything

Well, yes, for a commercial company it has to -it's not a charity, nor it is a subsidised nationalised company.

There's no point in them planning and marketing tours which might at best break even, if there's another option which will guarantee a profit.

The potential customers are excited by having Tornado, but not so enthusiastic about other haulage - that's just the way the market is at the moment with a new steam loco being flavour of the month.

I'm sure that if, for example, a couple of the Isle of Wight 483s were returned to the mainland you could whip up a huge market for some railtours around the Southern Region, probably charging £100+ a head. Not sure that Network Rail or the TOCs would be happy with them wandering around the network at 40mph though!

 

[Daimler]

Sadly commercial logic seems to dictate everything, and drag it all down to the lowest common denominator. Hence music promotors would for the same reason doubtless rather have JLS on the bill than Sonic Youth, and any true lover of music (and music itself) is the loser.

An odd comparison!

Surely true lovers of railways accept that steam is the only true form of traction?

*ducks for cover*

 

[4SRKT]

An odd comparison!

Surely true lovers of railways accept that steam is the only true form of traction?

*ducks for cover*

Hehehe!

I didn't really mean this as a steam versus diesel thing, rather as a Tornado versus anything else (including *real* steam). Tornado is in danger of becoming massively over-exposed by appearing on everything. It could become the Vernon Kay of the steam world!