Too-short connections on infrequent TfW route (rant)

[pdq]

Inspired by the thread about using the train instead of the car, I'm looking at using to the train to visit my Mum in Tenby (TEN) next month. Cost is very reasonable with advances and timing not too bad.
It used to be that the service from Manchester was 2 hourly, with a decent connection at either Swansea or Carmarthen (CMN). I know that the West Wales services are terminating at CMN at the moment, but this has created a missed connection that was previously valid.

• Trains from MAN to CMN are hourly, leaving at xx31. Depending on the calling pattern these arrive at CMN at xx34 - xx49, the 0931 departure being the one that takes the longest and gets in at 1449.
• Trains from CMN to TEN run every two hours on the even hours, at xx51. Minimum connection time at CMN is 5 mins.

So the 0931 from MAN no longer has a valid connection at CMN, for the sake of 3 minutes. The 6 hour journeys are now only available on the 0731 and 1131 departures. The 0931 used to be perfect for getting into MAN (from Batley), picking up a sandwich and leisurely catching the train, whilst arriving at Tenby mid afternoon. This affects more local journeys as well, as there's now no service from Swansea to Tenby at this time, because of this connection at CMN.
Is there no way for planners to analyse the changes they are making to highlight where a really sensible journey time has been wiped out, leaving a gaping hole? If the MAN/CMN couldn't go any quicker, it surely wouldn't matter that much for the CMN/TEN train to be timetabled slightly later - it's more or less self contained after all.

End of rant!

 

[JonathanH]

Would the conductor at Carmarthen show discretion if you booked the journey with a two hour connection but then took the earlier train if the connection is made?

I think you could specify a 99 minute connection at Carmarthen on trainscanbecheaper and then see whether it is possible to use the immediate connection if arrival at Carmarthen is early enough to make the earlier train.

While technically the correct connection should be taken, there ought to be some discretion on that in this case.

 

[pdq]

It would be on an advance from MAN - TEN so this itinerary can't be given. And if it was missed due to a delay down from MAN there would be a 2 hour wait at CMN with no delay repay available.
I'm sure in practice the CMN/TEN train waits, as long as the incoming train isn't too late - after all it's single track in and out of CMN. The point is that it is not a valid connection due to a quirk of the timetable at that point of the day.

 

[JonathanH]

Not being able to claim delay repay is hardly the greatest hardship on a long distance journey although I understand that you might not want to actually have to spend two unplanned hours in Carmarthen.

 

[pdq]

No you're right about Delay Repay - and also about potentially adding two hours to the journey at Carmarthen (or anywhere for that matter). I'll have a heavy bag with me so I can't easily wander up to the town centre. I may as well just leave two hours later to be safe.
It's just annoying that this connection is now broken when it was previously valid, and could be now with a slight tweak.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there no way for planners to analyse the changes they are making to highlight where a really sensible journey time has been wiped out, leaving a gaping hole?

To answer this question - yes there is a way, but as you can imagine there are an awful lot of potential connections across the network, and it’s simply not feasible for them all to be checked at every timetable change. And there have been rather a lot of timetable changes over the past 18 months or so.

 

[30907]

To answer this question - yes there is a way, but as you can imagine there are an awful lot of potential connections across the network, and it’s simply not feasible for them all to be checked at every timetable change. And there have been rather a lot of timetable changes over the past 18 months or so.

...and this one is one of TfW's Covid alterations, leaving the Pembroke branch in its pre-Covid timings W of Carmarthen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To answer this question - yes there is a way, but as you can imagine there are an awful lot of potential connections across the network, and it’s simply not feasible for them all to be checked at every timetable change.

It would strike me that that would be a perfect job for an IT system of some kind, ideally also loaded with information from surveys and Advance bookings to see what connections people actually use.

 

[Bald Rick]

It would strike me that that would be a perfect job for an IT system of some kind, ideally also loaded with information from surveys and Advance bookings to see what connections people actually use.

Well, yes, but there comes a point where yiu simply can’t keep all connections if something has to move.

 

[221129]

it surely wouldn't matter that much for the CMN/TEN train to be timetabled slightly later

By moving it any later you potentially cause a clash at Tenby with the service coming the other way.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How many services West of Carmarthen would need to have their timetables re-cast in order to maintain connections with trains that terminate or return Eastwards at Carmarthen?

Presumably it's more complicated a job than simply adding a few minutes to the timetable(s) for everything running West of Carmarthen to/from Pembroke Dock / Milford Haven or Fishguard Harbour?

 

[miklcct]

No you're right about Delay Repay - and also about potentially adding two hours to the journey at Carmarthen (or anywhere for that matter). I'll have a heavy bag with me so I can't easily wander up to the town centre. I may as well just leave two hours later to be safe.
It's just annoying that this connection is now broken when it was previously valid, and could be now with a slight tweak.

Under this situation I'll just split the ticket and book a flexible ticket for my second leg in order to do the invalid connection.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Presumably it's more complicated a job than simply adding a few minutes to the timetable(s) for everything running West of Carmarthen to/from Pembroke Dock / Milford Haven or Fishguard Harbour?

Yes it is a bit more complicated than that, running the trains onto the branches a few minutes later which are all single track naturally means all the trains they cross at the passing places will be the same number of minutes later going the other way, thus causing the same problem at Carmarthen on the return (and potential problems with trains going loosing their onward paths).

If the branches were double tracked and the trains had a decent turnaround at the terminus this would obviously be much easier!