Too many announcements? BBC report

[PaxVobiscum]

Here we go again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29753071

Should fewer announcements be made on train journeys?


Many railway passengers are annoyed by the number of announcements made during journeys by members of the crew.

However, others find the messages essential in order to make their way around the train network.

Graham Satchell looks at whether train companies should speak more or less frequently during railway journeys.

Can't think why it's never been brought up on these forums...

 

[class26]

Here we go again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29753071


Can't think why it's never been brought up on these forums...

Definitely too many on East Coast, especially when there are several stops.

Is it really necessary for the train manager (guard ?) to welcome everyone and then the catering staff also welcome everyone at EVERY station ? Why can`t the train manager just say the buffet is open for the sale of ........ ?

 

[badassunicorn]

It was unbearable on the Shenfield metros when they first fitted PIS to the 315's as the distance between stops isn't that large. You'd get:
This train is for Shenfield calling at....... (every station)
The next stop will be Stratford
We are now approaching Stratford.
This is Stratford please change here blah blah....
This train is for Shenfield, calling at......

nightmare.

 

[O L Leigh]

Too much or too little depends on the perception of the passenger. If you're familiar with the railways or the route then there are too many announcements, but if you're unfamiliar then you probably do need the information. So what is the industry to do? There isn't any right answer, plain and simple.

O L Leigh

 

[GatwickDepress]

A good rule of thumb when revising a piece of writing is to condense it down to as much as is needed. I wonder if the same could be applied to announcements.

 

[yorksrob]

I find that the best way to deal with excessive announcements is to invest in a good MP3 player.

 

[Searle]

The thing I find about announcements is that I don't want too many (some EC guards), but I definitely prefer manual to automated announcements (like on Virgin). Some East Coast guards have it just right, speeding through the basic announcements, but there's always a food bar announcement just after it, that takes about three times the length and is full of someone stumbling through their lines :P

 

[starrymarkb]

I sometime wonder if the continent could be a good inspriation. For example from Switzerland

[German] "Welcome aboard the Intercity to Thun, Spiez, Visp & Brig, We wish you a pleasant journey. The next stop is Bern. For drinks and snacks please visit the restaurant car in the middle of the train" [/German] (repeats in French and English)

It takes less time to do all three languages then most UK announcements take to do English (and before the Buffet staff do their own announcement)

 

[Yew]

I sometime wonder if the continent could be a good inspriation. For example from Switzerland

[German] "Welcome aboard the Intercity to Thun, Spiez, Visp & Brig, We wish you a pleasant journey. The next stop is Bern. For drinks and snacks please visit the restaurant car in the middle of the train" [/German] (repeats in French and English)

It takes less time to do all three languages then most UK announcements take to do English (and before the Buffet staff do their own announcement)

But how will people know that their bags will be destroyed by the security services if they let go of them for more than three seconds? And they certainly wont know to report suspicious behavior to a member of staff or a police officer, or that there may be a gap between the train and the platform?

There are all vitally 'important' pieces of information, that must be repeated constantly, drowning out platform alteration announcements, and delay notifications..

 

[DeeGee]

Do I really need to "Remember to take all of your personal belongings with you when leaving the train"?

Do I understand what is meant by "Transpennine Express is subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage" - just tell me the bit about only being able to get full-fare tickets on board (and don't then send an RPI my way with those confusing signals)

Do I need to know the name of the steward on board my East Coast train, and what is on sale at the cafebar? Just tell me where the cafebar is.

Is it not reasonable to assume that there will be staff "passing down the train doing a full ticket check" on board a train at any time - just tell me to keep my ticket with me while on board (and maybe until I've left my destination station?)

 

[al.currie93]

Definitely too many on East Coast, especially when there are several stops.

Is it really necessary for the train manager (guard ?) to welcome everyone and then the catering staff also welcome everyone at EVERY station ? Why can`t the train manager just say the buffet is open for the sale of ........ ?

East Coast are fine compared to Southern; get a train from Victoria to Ockley and I have counted that you are told by the (very loud) automated announcer that the train is "The Southern service to.. Horsham" more than 30 times over the course of the journey...

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Too much or too little depends on the perception of the passenger. If you're familiar with the railways or the route then there are too many announcements, but if you're unfamiliar then you probably do need the information. So what is the industry to do? There isn't any right answer, plain and simple.

O L Leigh

Yes there is; treat passengers as adults and not naughty children and stop patronising them with irrelevant information.

if you're unfamiliar then you probably do need the information.

Anyone unfamiliar with train travel could find out all the information they need in advance either through websites or station staff. We all managed perfectly well up until the current mania for over-announcing started.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I made a trip to into town earlier and in the 2 minute journey from Hastings to Ore:

"Welcome aboard the Southern service to Ore calling at Ore only. This is Coach 1 of 4. We are now approaching Ore. This is Coach 1 of 4. We are now arriving at Ore where this train terminates. Please ensure you take all of your personal belongings with you when leaving the train. All change."

The journey between Hastings and Ore is so short, there's no point having a "we are now approaching" message. It usually ends up being cut off by the next GPS (?) trigger anyway. The coach information is superfluous in a verbal announcement on this part of the service as there's no car length issues at Ore.

"Welcome aboard the Southern service to Ore, the next station, where this train terminates."

"We are now arriving at Ore, please take all belongings with you upon alighting. This train terminates here. All change please, all change."

 

[sd0733]

Infrequent travellers like to be reassured through announcements, Some people haven't travelled on a train for years/ever and are nervous it reassures them they are on the right train and how long they've got/where to change.
The problem is getting the balance between being informative and being annoying to a point that everybody ignores all announcements and there are a lot of announcements that are utter waffle the worst IMO being the buffet ones on almost every TOC that does them, there seems no need to list everything complete with brands I'm sure people can guess what a buffet does. Those do need minimising as to be they benefit nobody really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I sometime wonder if the continent could be a good inspriation. For example from Switzerland

[German] "Welcome aboard the Intercity to Thun, Spiez, Visp & Brig, We wish you a pleasant journey. The next stop is Bern. For drinks and snacks please visit the restaurant car in the middle of the train" [/German] (repeats in French and English)

It takes less time to do all three languages then most UK announcements take to do English (and before the Buffet staff do their own announcement)

That's all very well, but not announcing/displaying all the stops does confuse people who don't know the service patterns. It was the case (I think they now fixed it) that on the IRs from Geneve-Aeroport to Brig, that the Vevey stop was not advertised *anywhere* until you got to Lausanne. If they are going to do that, they could do with saying "via".

As for too many announcements, it's the continuous drone at stations that gets annoying, though at least they tend to be directed only to relevant platforms now. The pointless security announcements could do with going, certainly. The rest are a bit of a balance - you do after all need to consider those who can't see.

Neil

 

[170401]

Do I really need to "Remember to take all of your personal belongings with you when leaving the train"?

The size of our lost property departments suggests that yes, actually we do need these anouncements!

Personally I quite like SWTs announcements particularly from the guards who (in my very limited experience) sound human and give good quality realtime connection information.

A recent trip from London to Scotland on Virgin was woeful when we hit signalling problems about half an hour out of London. 25 minutes lost and the first announcement was to announce an additional call at Crewe a few minutes before we stopped there. Absolutely no info when we were delayed about why or how long we'd be delayed. Lots of angry looking faces in the coach which could've been easily placated with a little info or empathy from the crew.

Their is a lot of good and bad about announcements but the TOC's really need to have a good sit down and look at what passengers really want and need out of them and create an industry standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I made a trip to into town earlier and in the 2 minute journey from Hastings to Ore:

"Welcome aboard the Southern service to Ore calling at Ore only. This is Coach 1 of 4.

I don't entirely see why SN don't find a way of switching the coach number stuff off for trains that do not join or divide en-route.

Neil

 

[Tibbs]

The size of our lost property departments suggests that yes, actually we do need these anouncements!

Personally I quite like SWTs announcements particularly from the guards who (in my very limited experience) sound human and give good quality realtime connection information.

A recent trip from London to Scotland on Virgin was woeful when we hit signalling problems about half an hour out of London. 25 minutes lost and the first announcement was to announce an additional call at Crewe a few minutes before we stopped there. Absolutely no info when we were delayed about why or how long we'd be delayed. Lots of angry looking faces in the coach which could've been easily placated with a little info or empathy from the crew.

Their is a lot of good and bad about announcements but the TOC's really need to have a good sit down and look at what passengers really want and need out of them and create an industry standard.

Is your lost property department receiving more or fewer items per travelled mile now than before you did the announcements?

The amount of items is not relevant, what is relevant is the impact the announcement has had on the number of items lost.

 

[TheJRB]

Do a journey from Charing Cross to Ashford then!

"Welcome aboard this service to Sandwich and Ramsgate. This train calls at Waterloo East... and Ashford International, where the train will divide. The front four coaches will call at Westenhanger... and Sandwich. The rear four coaches will call at Wye... and Ramsgate. Please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach number one of eight."

"The next station is Waterloo East. Would customers please note this train will divide en-route at Ashford International. The front four coaches will continue to Sandwich. The rear four coaches will continue to Ramsgate. Please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach number one of eight."

"We will shortly be arriving at Waterloo East. Please mind the gap between the platform and the train. Please check that you have all your personal belongings with you when leaving the train and keep them with you at all times whilst on the station. If you see anything suspicious please report it to a member of staff or the police."

Then repeat for every station minus the safety information at smaller stations!

 

[bramling]

Infrequent travellers like to be reassured through announcements, Some people haven't travelled on a train for years/ever and are nervous it reassures them they are on the right train and how long they've got/where to change.
The problem is getting the balance between being informative and being annoying to a point that everybody ignores all announcements and there are a lot of announcements that are utter waffle the worst IMO being the buffet ones on almost every TOC that does them, there seems no need to list everything complete with brands I'm sure people can guess what a buffet does. Those do need minimising as to be they benefit nobody really.

Despite having had automated announcements on some trains for 15-20 years now, reliability still hasn't been perfected, and it's still not uncommon to find trains displaying no or incorrect information. Wrong information has to be worse than none at all.

I don't see why we can't just have messages giving calling patterns at major stations only, and a brief message approaching each station.

As for unfamiliar users -- why does everything have to be geared up to support the base in society? Most people seem capable of getting on the right train, those that don't, or who have been misled by incorrect information on the platform, won't be helped by an announcement on the train.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I don't entirely see why SN don't find a way of switching the coach number stuff off for trains that do not join or divide en-route.

Neil

It's also quite useful for passengers when the train calls at stations with short platforms, such as Normans Bay and Doleham.

Do a journey from Charing Cross to Ashford then!

"Welcome aboard this service to Sandwich and Ramsgate. This train calls at Waterloo East... and Ashford International, where the train will divide. The front four coaches will call at Westenhanger... and Sandwich. The rear four coaches will call at Wye... and Ramsgate. Please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. This is coach number one of eight."

*snip*

Then repeat for every station minus the safety information at smaller stations!

At least it's sort of spread over lots of stations.

I swear the announcement also used to go "British Transport Police or a member of railway staff", as if most people reporting something would care about such a distinction.

 

[Tibbs]

Despite having had automated announcements on some trains for 15-20 years now, reliability still hasn't been perfected, and it's still not uncommon to find trains displaying no or incorrect information. Wrong information has to be worse than none at all.

I don't see why we can't just have messages giving calling patterns at major stations only, and a brief message approaching each station.

As for unfamiliar users -- why does everything have to be geared up to support the base in society? Most people seem capable of getting on the right train, those that don't, or who have been misled by incorrect information on the platform, won't be helped by an announcement on the train.

I love the Japanese metro system of having an illuminated map which shows which station you're at, the direction of travel, and the next stop. It's really helpful when you don't understand the langauge.

I always thought this would be a great addition to the tube and metro services in London.

 

[thelongestroad]

Are some of the people who think the "mind the gap" announcements are annoying and stupid the same people who if fell between the train and the platform and try and sue TOCs for not providing a warning?

 

[Greenback]

There is a balance to be found between providing useful or essential information and having so many announcements that they cease to have any impact as the vast majority of passengers are so sick of them that they don't listen.

A start would be removing unnecessary wordage from all announcements. They are often too flowery and irritating. Strangely, the Americans are better a this than we are, despite the perception of their 'have a nice day' culture. For example 'Next station - Springfield, take care when alighting' is far more to the point than the please mind the gap between the train and the platform edge and please watch your step during the current inclement weather type of nonsense we get.

 

[CC 72100]

I love the Japanese metro system of having an illuminated map which shows which station you're at, the direction of travel, and the next stop. It's really helpful when you don't understand the langauge.

We had the same on the RER in Paris (and the metro) - every station that the train called at would be lit, and then the light would flash when that stop was next up.

Announcements were kept to a minimum and we were only reminded (in 3 languages!) of the destination of the train at the last station before the two branches split off.

There was an occasional mind the gap, but only for stations that warranted it.

 

[Jonfun]

It all does depend on the person making the announcements in my view. Someone stumbling over their words and speaking in a boring voice is going to get tedious after a while, whereas there are plenty of conductors etc I've found who I'd quite happily listen to for hours. Although - when people start saying things like "complete stop", and "final destination", it does bug me a little. Back in my hospital/student radio days I had a rule, because you've only got a short amount of time to grab people, make that time count and if you find yourself about to start waffling or repeat yourself, its time to stop.

 

[Greenback]

The automated announcements are far more boring than any human ones, even those made by people with a boring voice!

 

[PHILIPE]

Here we go again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29753071


Can't think why it's never been brought up on these forums...

It has. Several pages of it and also both on trains and stations:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98934

 

[PaxVobiscum]

It has. Several pages of it and also both on trains and stations:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98934

A little secret - I did actually know that...

 

[Railsigns]

They could certainly do away with the "please take a moment to read the safety instructions on board this train" announcements. I take no issue with those safety instructions being there or making passengers aware that they're there, but asking passengers to get up and read them at the start of every journey when they know perfectly well that nobody ever does or ever will, especially on a short suburban journey, is just a pointless exercise in backside covering.