Too damn close... What would have happened? (boarded wrong train)

[Comstock]

I got out of work a bit early tonight so I decided to get the train before my usual one. Got on, couldn't find a seat but was happy to stand the short distance from Derby to Burton. But something didn't feel right. With seconds to spare I clocked the passenger information board and realised the train didn't stop at BUT and the first stop would have been Birmingham New Street!

Obviously a big heads up to triple check everything but what actually happens in cases like this? Is it treated as automatic fare evasion with a penalty charge?

 

[alistairlees]

I got out of work a bit early tonight so I decided to get the train before my usual one. Got on, couldn't find a seat but was happy to stand the short distance from Derby to Burton. But something didn't feel right. With seconds to spare I clocked the passenger information board and realised the train didn't stop at BUT and the first stop would have been Birmingham New Street!

Obviously a big heads up to triple check everything but what actually happens in cases like this? Is it treated as automatic fare evasion with a penalty charge?

I expect you would have been fine. Almost every night people get on trains at London Bridge that are non-stop to High Brooms, when they only intend to go to Orpington or Sevenoaks. They never get charged extra, they just get home a lot later.

 

[_toommm_]

I'm sure if you approached the conductor at Birmingham they would have allowed you to travel back.

I over travelled Saturday night after a long shift, and ended up getting off at York instead of Leeds on a train from Manchester. A quick chat to the guard at York and we both chuckled and she endorsed my tickets for travel back

 

[800002]

Similar sort of thing happens on a few of the PM peak St Pancras - Ashford Int (non-stop at Ebbsfleet) services.
The ebbsfleet commuters can be spotted jumping off last minute.
One TM I spoke to a while ago set his record at eight people travelling back from Ashford to Ebbsfleet - gratis, as he's done it himself before and knows how silly he felt!

 

[paddington]

At Beccles two people with American accents boarded a train I was on to Ipswich, and presented Ipswich to Woodbridge returns saying they missed the stop. The guard was skeptical but they looked kind of pathetic so he let them travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Technically it's overtravelling. However if you find staff (rather than waiting for them to find you) and pass the "attitude test" most likely it'll cost you nowt but time.

 

[yorkie]

Obviously a big heads up to triple check everything but what actually happens in cases like this? Is it treated as automatic fare evasion with a penalty charge?

You cannot be issued a Penalty Fare for this journey as XC do not operate a PF scheme.

As for what actually happens... anything can happen. You may be treated sympathetically as a loyal customer, or you may be treated as a potential criminal.

XC have a wide range of Guards; they range from the exceptional, such as the legendary Kevin Kramer right down to people who treat passengers in an appalling manner who really ought not to be in such a role (I've witnessed the behaviour of some of them and it's shocking). It's such a mixed bag it's impossible to say.

To see how some XC Guards treat people, see: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/boarded-incorrect-train-attempting-to-get-refund.188878/ (I would suggest the Guard in that instance acted unlawfully as the passenger was following the instructions of railway staff; see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/passenger-rights-when-following-staff-instructions.191854/ for a discussion on that)

 

[Comstock]

Thanks, well at worst I wouldn't have been PFd.

I'm just so used to urban transport systems where the train stops at every station. Had there been a seat available I might well have sat down and got engrossed in my phone and not thought anymore of it until it was too late.

 

[sheff1]

Last week I got on train at Manchester Piccadilly on which the PIS showed it was calling at Wigan*. Some time after we had departed Oxford Rd, the guard appeared and announced that we should not believe the display "on these new trains" as the train was first stop Preston. They said that anyone for Wigan (there were at least three in my carriage) should "ask the guard" of the the next train to Wigan from Preston whether they could travel. No advice was given as to what to do if that guard said no. Surprsingly, no one kicked up a fuss about the incorrect display(s).

*I am pretty sure the screens at Piccadilly also showed a Wigan stop, but cannot be 100% certain as I was going to Preston.

 

[startingaparty]

Last week I got on train at Manchester Piccadilly on which the PIS showed it was calling at Wigan*. Some time after we had departed Oxford Rd, the guard appeared and announced that we should not believe the display "on these new trains" as the train was first stop Preston. They said that anyone for Wigan (there were at least three in my carriage) should "ask the guard" of the the next train to Wigan from Preston whether they could travel. No advice was given as to what to do if that guard said no. Surprsingly, no one kicked up a fuss about the incorrect display(s).

*I am pretty sure the screens at Piccadilly also showed a Wigan stop, but cannot be 100% certain as I was going to Preston.

This has happened to me going from Manchester Piccadilly to Buckshaw Parkway. If a train is delayed they cancel Lostock/Horwich/Chorley/Buckshaw and make it a direct to Preston from Bolton. However, sometimes the tannoy system is so quiet on the train you cannot hear the conductor, particularly if the windows are open and people are talking. I have been over-travelled to Preston twice now because of this and had to get the train back but neither of those occasions has my ticket been checked.

 

[BluePenguin]

I expect you would have been fine. Almost every night people get on trains at London Bridge that are non-stop to High Brooms, when they only intend to go to Orpington or Sevenoaks. They never get charged extra, they just get home a lot later.

This! I have never understood how or why this happens. Checking the display board at London Bridge and the scrolling display on the train whilst waiting for the announcement should be enough surely? Apparently not...

Someone I know boarded a train last week at London Bridge heading to Sevenoaks. Only 10 minutes after departure did they realise the scrolling display said the next station was Rochester! I asked them why did not check the station calls on the departure board and they said "I saw the destination was Ramsgate so I assumed it would stop at Sevenoaks as they all do"

As all Kent mainline services stop at Sevenoaks these days with some also calling at Orpington in the peak and at weekends. In comparison all the Sussex services call at Orpington apart from the few fast services in the peak.

 

[MikeWh]

I have never understood how or why this happens. Checking the display board at London Bridge and the scrolling display on the train whilst waiting for the announcement should be enough surely? Apparently not...

You've had a bad day at work, arrived at the station and seen a train going to the usual destination (beyond your usual stop IYSWIM) is already in the platform, you jump on and the doors close. Until you've commuted by train for a year or so you won't understand the myriad of things going through commuters minds.

 

[mmh]

This! I have never understood how or why this happens. Checking the display board at London Bridge and the scrolling display on the train whilst waiting for the announcement should be enough surely? Apparently not...

Someone I know boarded a train last week at London Bridge heading to Sevenoaks. Only 10 minutes after departure did they realise the scrolling display said the next station was Rochester! I asked them why did not check the station calls on the departure board and they said "I saw the destination was Ramsgate so I assumed it would stop at Sevenoaks as they all do"

How or why does it happen? Usually people making incorrect assumptions as you've described. It's very easily done.

Many years ago I did almost exactly the same as your example. I jumped on the first train leaving Cannon Street - I only wanted to go to London Bridge. As the train entered London Bridge I went to open the door and was pulled back by a quick thinking gentleman. The first stop was Rochester. At Rochester there was a ticket check between the platforms, the gentleman there replied along the lines of "blimey, good luck" to my breathless explanation that I was running past him to try and catch a train back which was pulling in.

I don't know why I assumed everything stopped at London Bridge, perhaps because I was more familiar with Charing Cross where everything did stop at the similarly just the other side of the Thames Waterloo East.

 

[35B]

How or why does it happen? Usually people making incorrect assumptions as you've described. It's very easily done.

Many years ago I did almost exactly the same as your example. I jumped on the first train leaving Cannon Street - I only wanted to go to London Bridge. As the train entered London Bridge I went to open the door and was pulled back by a quick thinking gentleman. The first stop was Rochester. At Rochester there was a ticket check between the platforms, the gentleman there replied along the lines of "blimey, good luck" to my breathless explanation that I was running past him to try and catch a train back which was pulling in.

I don't know why I assumed everything stopped at London Bridge, perhaps because I was more familiar with Charing Cross where everything did stop at the similarly just the other side of the Thames Waterloo East.

Absolutely. I used to commute to “everything stops” Bromley South, and jumped on the 18:35, then wondered why we weren’t slowing down. First stop Chatham.

Three months later, I did it again.

No grief from rail staff. Wish I could say the same about my wife...

 

[R G NOW.]

After reading some of the posts on this thread. Don't you people up north get platform staff to walk up and down the platform advising that a train stopped at it, is not calling at certain stations today due to late running.

I know of one occasion in Cheltenham, when a train arrived into Cheltenham late, they had to cut out the Gloucester stop. jerry phoned cis in Swindon and got the screens changed, he then walked along platform 1 telling everyone that today due to late running its not calling at Gloucester today and the next train is the 16:45 to measteg. everyone just felt happy and waited.

I did not know if anyone got this train, thinking it was calling at Gloucester like it normally does or not.

 

[Ken H]

I once travelled from Hamble to leamington

Changed into the local at Basingstoke, then changed again at reading.

As we left Reading, I patted my back pocket. ****, no wallet.

So I went to customer services at Oxford on the down platform and explained. They rang their counterpart at reading who had my wallet, then issued a warrant to travel to Reading and back, FOC.
I wrote to the relevant cutstomer services at Network South East to thank them.

Be up front and explain your mistake. Everyone makes c0ck-ups, and most are sympathetic.

 

[R G NOW.]

I once travelled from Hamble to leamington

Changed into the local at Basingstoke, then changed again at reading.

As we left Reading, I patted my back pocket. ****, no wallet.

So I went to customer services at Oxford on the down platform and explained. They rang their counterpart at reading who had my wallet, then issued a warrant to travel to Reading and back, FOC.
I wrote to the relevant cutstomer services at Network South East to thank them.

Be up front and explain your mistake. Everyone makes c0ck-ups, and most are sympathetic.

This has also happened to me. got off at Cheltenham, the when I got back to Gloucester found that my wallet had been handed in to customer assistance by the conductor that made his return journey back to Cardiff.

 

[Ken H]

This has also happened to me. got off at Cheltenham, the when I got back to Gloucester found that my wallet had been handed in to customer assistance by the conductor that made his return journey back to Cardiff.

Mine had cash in it, so they would not send it by train. Bloke at Oxford said if it wasn't cash they would have given it to a guard to bring to Oxford.

 

[R G NOW.]

Mine had cash in it, so they would not send it by train. Bloke at Oxford said if it wasn't cash they would have given it to a guard to bring to Oxford.

How strange
Mine did not have cash in at the time, as I always use contactless.

 

[PeterC]

Twicw

You've had a bad day at work, arrived at the station and seen a train going to the usual destination (beyond your usual stop IYSWIM) is already in the platform, you jump on and the doors close. Until you've commuted by train for a year or so you won't understand the myriad of things going through commuters minds.

Easily done, we were going to have dinner with friends in Chelmsford once and I jumped straight on a fast forgetting that I was supposed to go home first, fetch the car and meet SWMBO there. At least I was able to have a few extra glasses of wine to fortify me for the bus ride home. At least there were evening buses back then.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Mine had cash in it, so they would not send it by train. Bloke at Oxford said if it wasn't cash they would have given it to a guard to bring to Oxford.

Could they not pay in the cash at the ticket office, and then you claim the cash back at the ticket office where you're at?

 

[Starmill]

There is a real risk of being charged for a new ticket or issued with a Penalty Fare, on threat of prosecution if you don't cough up the sum the train company decides on. There are a number of cases of this having happened reported on this forum, and in the media e.g.

A commuter who pays £4,500 for a rail season ticket was fined after falling asleep on his train home and missing his stop.

Neil Armstrong woke up at the next stop just four minutes away, but was fined despite pleading with a ticket inspector to show some "common sense".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nual-rail-season-ticket-fined-falling-asleep/

The proportion of cases in which this happens is unknown, although it is probably fairly low.

The fact that this can happen on even one occasion, because of immoral application of the rules by train company staff, is in my view one of the many reasons why the Penalty Fares scheme should be abolished, and the specific criminal offences relating to railway tickets should be retired. Train companies would still have other routes to prosecute in serious cases (e.g. fraud charges), or ones where there is a public interest in the prosecution going ahead. A system with similar consequences to the one I'm explaining already works well on the railway in Scotland. Of course, even with my proposed reform, the company could still insist that you do pay for your over-travelling if they're asserting that it was your fault that you did so. That's not so bad as the current situation though, and it would only be a civil matter if you didn't pay.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It happens a lot, even with rail staff, especially if you're tired or rushed. Someone I know- who really should know better- went through a phase of repeatedly ending up on the EC fast to York when they didn't want to go anywhere near York.

Worst I've seen was someone jump on at Preston for Wigan. Sadly the next stop was London Euston.

 

[6Gman]

It happens a lot, even with rail staff, especially if you're tired or rushed. Someone I know- who really should know better- went through a phase of repeatedly ending up on the EC fast to York when they didn't want to go anywhere near York.

Worst I've seen was someone jump on at Preston for Wigan. Sadly the next stop was London Euston.

It is said that the Deputy Chief Controller of the London Midland Region, taking the office cricket team to a fixture in Buxton, urged them to board a particular train at Manchester Piccadilly ... until it was pointed out to him that the EMU he was boarding would be unlikely to reach Buxton.

Wasn't there an instance of Peter Parker, as Chairman of British Rail, boarding a train going in the wrong direction?

 

[6Gman]

On the theme of railway staff ...

Many years ago a Llandudno Junction (6G) set of driver, fireman and guard were rostered passenger to Crewe to pick up a return working.

They took over a compartment and got their heads down for a bit of shuteye.

Hearing the train braking to a stand one of them peered out of the window and asked:

"Ydi Stafford yn dod o flaen Crewe?" ("Does Stafford come before Crewe?")

Didn't say much for his route knowledge.

 

[Hadders]

Wasn't there an instance of Peter Parker, as Chairman of British Rail, boarding a train going in the wrong direction?

Apparently he was on his way from Crewe to Carlisle for a meeting but got on a train that was non-stop to Euston.

Obviously no mobile phones on those days - I read on here some years ago that a note was thrown out of a window as he passed a station asking the staff to contact Carlisle and say he wouldn't be at the meeting.

No idea if it's true...

 

[Deerfold]

I've known 2 people who used to work in London, lived some distance away and liked a drink or two and had a habit of nodding off on the train.

The one who lived at Watford ended up at Northampton, Birmingham, Hemel Hempstead and Rugby on various occasions.

The one who lived at Newark had a habit of ending up at Leeds.

I don't think either of them ever had to pay again, but they did get home a lot later - sometimes the next day.

 

[MS805]

I have woken a young lad up at Nottingham who joined the train at Liverpool South Parkway, apparently rather the worse for wear after returning by plane from his hols, and managed to miss his stop at Widnes, i.e. he got on at 2147 for a stop reached at 2156 and I woke him up at about 0050.

 

[Wirewiper]

I knew someone who worked in London and lived in Swindon. Guess how he knows that a taxi from Swansea to Swindon costs £350?

 

[221129]

If I had a tenner for every person I've directed to the 24hr Maccies in Edinburgh I'd be able to retire!