Tony Blair. Should he have been knighted?

[AlterEgo]

The honour Blair is receiving is within the personal gift of the Queen and hence it falls outside the usual honours windmill. It seems appropriate he was given it as such a significant figure for a decade.

 

[TwoYellas]

I think endorsement by key media barons can greatly increase the chances of anyone wishing to become pm. Such is the subliminal power of newspapers etc on voters in my view.

Can make the difference to be seen as either a traitorous scumbag or a legend with a golden smile!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

mods note - split from this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...aces-of-pandemic-knighted-damed.226623/unread
Tony Blair being knighted is worth every penny for the enormous social media meltdown from the hard left and hard right last night.

Worth every penny? Did it cost anything?

Sir John Major certainly deserves an honour for his rueful comment about John Smith: "John and I used to meet for a drink. Sometimes tea, sometimes not tea"

 

[tbtc]

Yes, he seemed like a capable leader. Would he have got labour over the line, without having quite the panache of Tony Blair is an interesting one to ponder.

I think you're right about Smith, although given labour's surprise defeat in 1992, I'm wary of assuming that Smith would definitely have got it !

I reckon the answer would be 'yes but with a much smaller majority'. When Smith died they were polling in the high 40%s while the Tories were in the high 20%s. Major was at war with the b@stards over Europe, it was the time of sleaze mark 1, Cash of Questions, Aitken and the collapsed libel case; Black Wednesday had also damaged confidence in the Tories as a safe pair of hands. Major didn't have the personality to overcome all those setbacks. A smaller majority would have done Labour good because it would have kept potential dissidents focussed. Smith would have been less likely to veer towards some of Blair's 'middle way' thinking. As Home Secretary, Blair would have been able to implement much of the reforming legislation the '97 government put into place. What would happened post Smith - no idea.

I liked Smith

But some things had changed between 1994 and 1997 - under Ken Clarke's Chancellorship we'd had a few years of economic stability and growth (which Brown was able to build upon), living standards were rising after "Black Wednesday" / ERM crash etc - so I think it'd have been a lot harder for a fairly dour economist like Smith to paint a narrative of what he would do differently. Blair, on the other hand, was able to tell a more compelling story, reach the kind of "Mondeo Man" that gave him his high majority.

To be politically even, I'm inclined to think that William Hague might have made a good P.M. but led the party at the wrong time.

Yeah, I think i agree - Hague seems to have been over promoted initially and would have done (personally) better if he'd risen through the ranks slower

But I can see why the Tories were desperate to bring in someone untainted by the sleaze etc of the Major era

Lets be honest: The real cranks are the SWP/Corbyn fanboys who delivered nothing but total and utter failure and embarrassment. Blair knew that winning and gaining power was more important that ideological purity and that only by winning could you help people. Corbyn and his fans prefer permanent opposition because that means they never have to surrender purity or make a compromise.

Those 3 Blair election victories REALLY burn don't they.

Completely agreed

In opposition he said he would renationalise the railways,instead he carried on with Tory policy. So no,I wouldn’t knight him.

So any PM who didn't deliver every manifesto promise shouldn't get a knighthood?

(Blair did take more of the railway back into public hands, given Network Rail replaced Railtrack, of course)

 

[Typhoon]

I think you're right about Smith, although given labour's surprise defeat in 1992, I'm wary of assuming that Smith would definitely have got it !

They were too busy congratulating themselves before they crossed the finishing line. ("We're alright! We're alright!").

Major had a very sensible (if cheesy) campaign, touring the streets of South London, looking for the house where he was born. "Is it still there? It is." Trying to come across as the common man. Only works for Tories, really.

The polls hadn't been too far apart leading up to the election, the gap had severely reduced once Thatcher had gone.

But some things had changed between 1994 and 1997 - under Ken Clarke's Chancellorship we'd had a few years of economic stability and growth (which Brown was able to build upon), living standards were rising after "Black Wednesday" / ERM crash etc - so I think it'd have been a lot harder for a fairly dour economist like Smith to paint a narrative of what he would do differently. Blair, on the other hand, was able to tell a more compelling story, reach the kind of "Mondeo Man" that gave him his high majority.

They would play on divisions within the Conservatives, and sleaze. When I've looked back, sleaze was rather less prevalent than I thought but I can still remember the names (Riddick, Tredinnick, Hamilton and Smith) - and was in the newspapers. There was also the 'Back to Basics' backlash!

So any PM who didn't deliver every manifesto promise shouldn't get a knighthood?

Every one? I wouldn't like to think of the last one who did so. Perhaps that is why Johnson keeps setting deadlines for the end of the decade?
If that was set in stone we might end up with some pretty think manifestos (which may or may not be a good thing - they would exclude anything that is peripheral, which probably includes transport).

 

[bavvo]

Most "knights" fail to live up to the noble tradition of the word, today, with a few exceptions, it is dominated by business men, politicians, judges, arms dealers, and other overly wealthy individuals.

Medieval knights were little better though. Most were mercenaries and warlords who made their money from warfare, pillage and the exploitation of serfdom.

 

[MotCO]

We don't know how much input and support behind the scenes Blair gave the Royals at the time of Diana's death.

Good point! That was a time when the Royals came in for a lot of flak.

I'm inclined to think that there is something behind the scenes that we are not aware of. I'm also wondering if the timing is significant as being the first New Year's Honours after the death of Prince Philip - maybe he had 'vetoed' it previously.

 

[Bevan Price]

At least Blair did not give one of his children a life peerage (unlike Thatcher when she retired). As others commented, Iraq was his big mistake, but apart from that, he did quite well as PM, although the usual lies in the Tory media tried to spoil his reputation..

As for the best Labour PM we never had, I suggest Hugh Gaitskell, who died before the 1964 election; had he lived, he would probably have been better than Harold Wilson.

On the Tory side, Hague's problem was possibly that too many people remembered him as the precocious teenager praising Thatcher at a Party Conference.

 

[JamesT]

I'm inclined to think that there is something behind the scenes that we are not aware of. I'm also wondering if the timing is significant as being the first New Year's Honours after the death of Prince Philip - maybe he had 'vetoed' it previously.

The Queen has often spoken about how Prince Philip was her rock. I think if he’d managed to convince her that an honour for Blair wasn’t appropriate then I don’t think his death would have changed that. (I don’t believe he would be able to ‘veto’ things, the Queen has made it clear she’s the monarch and has the responsibility)

 

[brad465]

A Change.org petition has reached over 500k signatures demanding Blair's knighthood be removed:

Tony Blair: Petition to block knighthood tops 700,000 signatures

The ex-PM is accused of war crimes, but Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer says his honour is deserved.

www.bbc.co.uk

More than 550,000 people have signed a petition calling for former Prime Minister Sir Tony Blair to have his knighthood removed.
The ex-Labour leader, who was in power from 1997 to 2007, was given the title as the New Year's Honours were awarded.
But the petition complains that his role in the Iraq war makes him "personally responsible" for many deaths and accuses him of "war crimes".
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said Sir Tony had "earned" a knighthood.
And a government minister said it was "only right" to reward the former prime minister, who had done "many good things" for the UK.

On 1 January, Sir Tony became a member of the Order of the Garter, England's oldest and most senior order of chivalry, describing it as an "immense honour".
The appointment was the personal choice of the Queen, who has up to 24 "knight and lady companions", with current Prime Minister Boris Johnson not involved in the decision.
But a petition posted on the change.org website by Angus Scott says Sir Tony "caused irreparable damage to both the constitution of the United Kingdom and to the very fabric of the nation's society" while in office.
"He was personally responsible for causing the death of countless innocent, civilian lives and servicemen in various conflicts. For this alone he should be held accountable for war crimes," it adds.
"Tony Blair is the least deserving person of any public honour, particularly anything awarded by Her Majesty the Queen."
Unlike the New Year's Honours list, which is drawn up by the government for the Queen's approval, the Order of the Garter is bestowed as a personal gift by the Queen.
The Honours Forfeiture Committee cannot recommend the removal of knighthoods handed out in this way.
The committee can only look into honours decided by the government, for reasons such as the recipient committing a crime or bringing the honours system into disrepute.

Note that the petition had be done this way and not be an official Parliamentary petition, because the latter does not permit them regarding Honours.

 

[DarloRich]

A Change.org petition has reached over 500k signatures demanding Blair's knighthood be removed:

Trots trotting. Next.

 

[GusB]

I've just searched for the petition online and the one started by "Angus Scott" in the quotation mentioned above was only one of many. It gives his location as "Banchory, Scotland" - hardly fertile "Trot" territory.

This comment

Angus Scott says Sir Tony "caused irreparable damage to both the constitution of the United Kingdom and to the very fabric of the nation's society" while in office.

suggests more of a Tory unionist agenda than a left Labour one.

Funnily enough, when I clicked through to his Twitter page I was faced with:

Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else.

The link to the petition is here:

Sign the Petition

Tony Blair to have his "Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter" rescinded

www.change.org

The opening pages in some of the others make for some amusing reading!

 

[Typhoon]

The link to the petition is here:

Sign the Petition

Tony Blair to have his "Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter" rescinded

www.change.org

I wonder how many images they had to search through to find one that looked that unpleasant.

 

[XAM2175]

This comment ...
suggests more of a Tory unionist agenda than a left Labour one.

Haha yes, they want a moan about devolution more than anything else.

 

[Busaholic]

The Queen has often spoken about how Prince Philip was her rock. I think if he’d managed to convince her that an honour for Blair wasn’t appropriate then I don’t think his death would have changed that. (I don’t believe he would be able to ‘veto’ things, the Queen has made it clear she’s the monarch and has the responsibility)

He might have asked her not to announce it until after his death?

 

[jfollows]

My issue is, not unique here, that I don't like the honours system and would abolish it along with the entirety of the Royal Family very happily. But, given that it and they exist, in that context I support Tony Blair's award. He changed my life in the changes he made which allowed my same-sex partner to move to the UK in 2000, after we'd lived together in the USA for a while, and he made other changes which were necessary and important during his time. I said at the time that the support for invasion of Iraq was wrong, for once I claim the wisdom of foresight rather than the benefit of hindsight, and I believe Blair was wrong in that and in other things. But compared to the current Prime Minister .... well, I don't think I need to go on.

 

[brad465]

Trots trotting. Next.

Yes I think it's almost certain the petition won't achieve anything.

I wonder how many images they had to search through to find one that looked that unpleasant.

IIRC that image was used on Channel 4's Big fat quiz of the year 2021 on Boxing Day, and was in regard to a trending hairstyle around the short mullet that he and some others adopted.

 

[Typhoon]

IIRC that image was used on Channel 4's Big fat quiz of the year 2021 on Boxing Day, and was in regard to a trending hairstyle around the short mullet that he and some others adopted.

Thanks for that . I wouldn't watch the programme, I had had enough of 2021 about half way through July. It was his facial expression that got me.

 

[Geezertronic]

It was his facial expression that got me.

It's his William Hartnell Dr Who look

 

[Typhoon]

It's his William Hartnell Dr Who look

That's it. Spot on. Isn't the Doctor due for a regeneration? Maybe it's his audition!

 

[Cowley]

That's it. Spot on. Isn't the Doctor due for a regeneration? Maybe it's his audition!

Tough on daleks, tough on the causes of daleks…

 

[DarloRich]

Tough on daleks, tough on the causes of daleks…

Our top priority was, is and always will be exterminate, exterminate, exterminate

 

[Cowley]

Our top priority was, is and always will be exterminate, exterminate, exterminate

 

[backontrack]

Funny how if you read the thread you'd think there'd be a universal consensus in favour of Blair being knighted, yet the poll itself tells a different story!

It is amusing though - this forum seems very fond of Blair, yet at the same time appears to have staunchly opposing views to him on things like COVID passports and lockdowns...

 

[Busaholic]

Funny how if you read the thread you'd think there'd be a universal consensus in favour of Blair being knighted, yet the poll itself tells a different story!

It is amusing though - this forum seems very fond of Blair, yet at the same time appears to have staunchly opposing views to him on things like COVID passports and lockdowns...

Appearances can be deceptive. In the privacy of the polling booth.....

In case I get accused of naivety, I have no illusions that virtually any poll's result can't be examined to find how an individual votes.

 

[Gareth]

I don't know. Considering who else has been knighted over the years, I think the honour is almost as dubious as Time Person Of The Year.

 

[DarloRich]

this forum seems very fond of Blair, yet at the same time appears to have staunchly opposing views to him on things like COVID passports and lockdowns...

I don't have staunchly opposing views to Blair on things like COVID passports and lockdowns and I am very fond of Blair. I wish we had a sensible mature adult like him in charge now rather than the clown shoe we currently have.

It is (not) funny how when offered a choice between clown Corbyn and the clown shoe Johnson the people chose Johnson. They chose Johnson in such renowned Tory areas like Bishop Auckland & Bassetlaw & Leigh & Sedgefield & Redcar & North West Durham and Workington and on and on. I will take Blair thanks.

Sedgefield, under Blair, had a 25k majority.

EDIT: Sorry. I forgot: Clown Corbyn won the argument

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm inclined to think that there is something behind the scenes that we are not aware of. I'm also wondering if the timing is significant as being the first New Year's Honours after the death of Prince Philip - maybe he had 'vetoed' it previously.

You think the Queen, from whom the honour is a personal gift and rarely bestowed, listened to her husband of 70+ years only to immediately disregard his wishes once he was dead?

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I voted that he should not have a Knighthood, I took 45 minutes to arrive at that decision.

 

[MotCO]

I voted that he should not have a Knighthood, I took 45 minutes to arrive at that decision.

Do you have that dossier?