Tommy Robinson

[Bromley boy]

There very definitely is that conflict, something that we in Western society went through in the 1960s. It causes significant issues for people who don't want to fit into the traditional patriarchal system, especially young women and gay men. I think it does also cause issues for young men who aren't quite sure where they identify.

Don't get me wrong, I do think they target girls outside the community. Of course they do: it's easier to get away with it if they do. There is also an element of the perpetrators trying to persuade themselves that it's ok because the girls are sluts who secretly want it anyway. But that's no different to the idea of the Lolita seductress so common in white paedo circles. The likes of the MBLA in America similarly try to argue their victims want it to justify their abuse to themselves.

If you can acknowledge that, you should be able to agree that there is a seperate and distinct problem with Muslim grooming gangs: just as there is with catholic priests; just as there might be with black gangs.

They all have different factors contributing to them, but cultural issues are very relevant. Why should we be afraid to acknowledge that these problems exist?

I don't agree with that at all. I think it's the opposite. Too many people believe that it's only the others who rape kids. It's the Muslim gangs, it's the weird priests. It can't possibly be that nice Mr Jones from number 47, he always helps the neighbours with their shopping.

The majority of abuse victims know their abuser, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a secondary problem with grooming gangs trafficking vulnerable girls.

An incorrect impression. Easily verified with the simplest of online searches. There was no arrest. He twice attended a SYP police station of his own free will. CPS thresholds were not met for any charges. And the Court of Appeal reaffirmed this when his accusers used their right to review the CPS decision.

A wholly innocent man who shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as others named in this thread.

We have a justice system. Personal impressions and the court of public opinion are not the arbiters.

Well said.

I’ve wondered why Cliff Richard’s name has been bandied about on this thread - there was absolutely no evidence against him!

Rather shows the power of false allegations. It’s high time the names of those accused of sex crimes were kept confidential until conviction.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

99%* of white British non-Muslims know that 99%* of Muslims do not agree with Islamic State and child rape. They wouldn't feel it necessary to ask them to condemn those things, because they know that anyone with any sense would.
But if a Muslim (or anyone, to be quite honest) is protesting about one particular aspect of an issue, wouldn't you be interested in their views on other aspects of the same issue?

*exaggerated for effect

What a load of crap - how can you speak for 99% of Muslims ? I get fed up of people labelling criticism of islam as racist - Opposing a fascist ideology like islam is NOT racist.

 

[bnm]

Fascist ideology?

Are you saying that every follower of the religion of Islam is a fascist?

Can you provide critical analysis of the religion, it's tenets, it's, teachings, it's texts, that back up this assertion? Not selective quotes from religious texts mind.

Nearly 2 billion followers of Islam worldwide. A tiny percentage of whom subscribe to activities and beliefs that are outside of societal norms. That in no way makes the entire religion a fascist ideology anymore than, for example, Israeli oppression of Palestinians makes Judaism a terrorist ideology.

 

[AlterEgo]

Nearly 2 billion followers of Islam worldwide. A tiny percentage of whom subscribe to activities and beliefs that are outside of societal norms.

Which societal norms? Western ones? Or Islamic ones?

 

[EM2]

What a load of crap - how can you speak for 99% of Muslims?

You clearly didn't notice (even though you quoted) '*exaggerated for effect'.
But for what it's worth, I grew up around Muslims, went to school with Muslims, lived around Muslims and work with Muslims. I talk to them and discuss things with them. I have not met a single one that agrees with Daesh or with rape.

I get fed up of people labelling criticism of islam as racist - Opposing a fascist ideology like islam is NOT racist.

Wow. Extrapolation much?
Where did I label anyone that criticises Islam as racist? I believe that Robinson is racist, because of what he has said and what he has done.

 

[AlterEgo]

But for what it's worth, I grew up around Muslims, went to school with Muslims, lived around Muslims and work with Muslims. I talk to them and discuss things with them. I have not met a single one that agrees with Daesh or with rape.

Would you expect someone to freely tell you that they agreed with Islamic State, or stoning adulterers to death, for example?

 

[bnm]

Which societal norms? Western ones? Or Islamic ones?

Human ones.

 

[AlterEgo]

Human ones.

What would they be then?

In some societies, you are executed for leaving your religion, or having gay sex, often extrajudiciously.

The values and standards between Western Europe and many parts of the Islamic world are very, very different.

 

[bnm]

Would you expect someone to freely tell you that they agreed with Islamic State, or stoning adulterers to death, for example?

I would, if that person was a radical fundamentalist. But as they are a vanishing small percentage of any religion, creed or ethos, the chances of meeting one are miniscule.

As EM2 has intimated, the overwhelming majority of the followers of Islam (or any religion, or none) are peaceful, law abiding citizens.

 

[EM2]

Would you expect someone to freely tell you that they agreed with Islamic State, or stoning adulterers to death, for example?

Plenty of Christians have told me that they agree with the less pleasant tenets in the Bible, I don't see why members of other religions would be any different.

 

[bnm]

What would they be then?

As set out in various United Nation charters.

 

[AlterEgo]

Plenty of Christians have told me that they agree with the less pleasant tenets in the Bible, I don't see why members of other religions would be any different.

What would be the consequences, in today's Britain (imagined consequences or otherwise) for:

A Christian telling a white British person they thought gay sex was a sin, the Old Testament punishments should make a return, Christianity is a superior religion, etc...

And a Muslim telling a white British person that a caliphate is a necessity to be obtained through jihad, gay people should be stoned, beheading is a just punishment?

Do you not agree that the current climate might mean Muslims with somewhat extreme views - whether they intended to act on them or not - may not communicate their beliefs freely?

 

[AlterEgo]

As set out in various United Nation charters.

Like the UN Charter of Human Rights?

There's a good reason why most Muslims who come to this country here are peaceful and tolerant.

 

[EM2]

Do you not agree that the current climate might mean Muslims with somewhat extreme views - whether they intended to act on them or not - may not communicate their beliefs freely?

Maybe. But I've been having these conversations for over thirty years.

 

[Bromley boy]

As set out in various United Nation charters.

Except that if you look at most Islamic countries they have an exceptionally poor record of upholding any human rights.

Try being gay or female in Iran or Saudi.

 

[fowler9]

No, but the alternative is to say that there is a big problem in some areas with Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim men raping white children. It can be said as dispassionately as you like yet never sounds pleasant and leads to a lot of accusations of racism.

I think some - not all - on the left would rather have a multicultural society where nobody dared criticise anyone of an ethnic minority for fear of being a massive racist, than tackling this specific problem head on and risk all the political ramifications.

None of this has anything to do with Tommy Robinson, who is a tool.

I think there are possibly more Asian men who need to be brought to justice. Thing is that this is a thread about Tommy Robinson who is basically a very unpleasant person. Us talking about the fact he is right about Asian grooming gangs doesn't take away from the fact he has some massive issues. Why is he trying to draw attention to child molesters everyone already knows about who are actually in court?

 

[Geezertronic]

Why is he trying to draw attention to child molesters everyone already knows about who are actually in court?

Not sure that is accurate considering there is a reporting blackout in place. Even with the TR publicity, I doubt anyone can actually name any of the people on trial.

 

[fowler9]

Not sure that is accurate considering there is a reporting blackout in place. Even with the TR publicity, I doubt anyone can actually name any of the people on trial.

Does anyone need to be able to name them?

 

[Geezertronic]

Does anyone need to be able to name them?

If convicted, it is in the public interest to name all who are convicted of any sexual offence regardless of colour or religion. As you suggested that everyone already knew, I pointed out that was not necessarily the case

 

[fowler9]

If convicted, it is in the public interest to name all who are convicted of any sexual offence regardless of colour or religion. As you suggested that everyone already knew, I pointed out that was not necessarily the case

Is it in the public interest to name people before they are convicted because that is pretty much what happened? What I meant was he was hardly raising awareness of Pakistani and Bangladeshi sex gangs in the country. Anyone who doesn't know about it but is made aware by Tommy Robinson gets their news from some bizarre random sources. I will tell you now that from discussions I have had with Alt Right folks from the US they honestly believe he was banged up as a white civil rights activist because we don't have Freedom of speech in the UK. No one is silencing Tommy Robinson apart from anyone with half a brain who gets on a TV debate with him. Him being incapable of providing a decent argument for what he believes is not him being silenced. He gets all the free speech he needs and normally makes himself look stupid, when he isn't getting arrested because he has actually broken the law. Free speech is not saying what you want and no one disagreeing.

 

[Bromley boy]

Is it in the public interest to name people before they are convicted because that is pretty much what happened? What I meant was he was hardly raising awareness of Pakistani and Bangladeshi sex gangs in the country. Anyone who doesn't know about it but is made aware by Tommy Robinson gets their news from some bizarre random sources. I will tell you now that from discussions I have had with Alt Right folks from the US they honestly believe he was banged up as a white civil rights activist because we don't have Freedom of speech in the UK. No one is silencing Tommy Robinson apart from anyone with half a brain who gets on a TV debate with him. Him being incapable of providing a decent argument for what he believes is not him being silenced. He gets all the free speech he needs and normally makes himself look stupid, when he isn't getting arrested because he has actually broken the law. Free speech is not saying what you want and no one disagreeing.

But in this case he’s nailed his colours to the mast of a valid concern which hasn’t been adequately addressed by the mainstream political parties. That has given him the oxygen of publicity.

If they continue to fail to address this, and similar issues, he will be able to do so again.

I agree with your first sentence - those who are accused of sex crimes should remain anonymous until conviction, in my opinion. The references above to Cliff Richard perfectly demonstrate why - there wasn’t even sufficient evidence to arrest him - yet he’s being referred to in the same breath as convicted peadophiles!

 

[fowler9]

But in this case he’s nailed his colours to the mast of a valid concern which hasn’t been adequately addressed by the mainstream political parties. That has given him the oxygen of publicity.

If they continue to fail to address this, and similar issues, he will be able to do so again.

I agree with your first sentence - those who are accused of sex crimes should remain anonymous until conviction, in my opinion. The references above to Cliff Richard perfectly demonstrate why - there wasn’t even sufficient evidence to arrest him - yet he’s being referred to in the same breath as conceived peadophiles!

He has has nailed his colours to the mast of a concern that hasn't been addressed by filming kiddy fiddlers that are on their way in to court to be prosecuted for molesting vulnerable girls? I don't see in what way it wasn't being addressed. Yeah it should have been done sooner but it was hardly a bit of ground breaking journalism which he alone found out about. It has been all over the press for years. People like this have been being convicted more frequently for years. Too late for the victims but what has his most recent Muslim shaming really achieved apart from his incarceration. The guy is a clown who ignores child molesters in his own organisation. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I am sure that wouldn't put old Tommy the career criminal off lashing a stone at anyone.

 

[Bromley boy]

He has has nailed his colours to the mast of a concern that hasn't been addressed by filming kiddy fiddlers that are on their way in to court to be prosecuted for molesting vulnerable girls? I don't see in what way it wasn't being addressed. Yeah it should have been done sooner but it was hardly a bit of ground breaking journalism which he alone found out about. It has been all over the press for years. People like this have been being convicted more frequently for years. Too late for the victims but what has his most recent Muslim shaming really achieved apart from his incarceration. The guy is a clown who ignores child molesters in his own organisation.

The mast he’s nailed his colours to is the concern about predominantly Muslim kiddy fiddlers, fiddling with predominantly white vulnerable children, and that issue being swept under the carpet due to concerns about racism.

Robinson is a throbbing, racist, bell-end of a man, for sure, but he’s been legitimised in this case by the cowardice of mainstream politicians.

If we don’t want that to continue, and I’m sure none of us do, mainstream politicians need to address the problem, as our current Home Secretary (from a Pakistani background himself) commendably shows more signs of doing than the leader of the opposition* who denies the problem exists, because it doesn’t fit into his simplistic worldview.

*another throbbing, racist, bell-end of a man.

 

[fowler9]

The mast he’s nailed his colours to is the concern about predominantly Muslim kiddy fiddlers, fiddling with predominantly white vulnerable children, and that issue being swept under the carpet due to concerns about racism.

Robinson is a throbbing, racist, bell-end of a man, for sure, but he’s been legitimised in this case by the cowardice of mainstream politicians.

If we don’t want that to continue, and I’m sure none of us do, mainstream politicians need to address the problem, as our current Home Secretary (from a Pakistani background himself) commendably shows more signs of doing than the leader of the opposition* who denies the problem exists, because it doesn’t fit into his simplistic worldview.

*another throbbing, racist, bell-end of a man.

Mate when Tommy "Highlighted" this issue recently was there anyone left who didn't know there was a possible issue? Most people are well aware and it was very much in the public domain. He highlighted something everyone already knew about whilst following his nasty little agenda. Never heard his comments on a white couple in Germany selling their kid for sex on the dark web.

 

[Bromley boy]

Mate when Tommy "Highlighted" this issue recently was there anyone left who didn't know there was a possible issue? Most people are well aware and it was very much in the public domain. He highlighted something everyone already knew about whilst following his nasty little agenda. Never heard his comments on a white couple in Germany selling their kid for sex on the dark web.

Lots of people don’t know about it.

This issue has been swept under the carpet so unfortunately he’s alighted onto something that legitimises him and therefore the rest of his agenda. Don’t let your hatred for Robinson blind you to that fact.

We are all talking about him on here - what does that tell you?

(I read about the German case too - utterly sickening - suddenly I’m in favour of the death penalty - don’t get me started)

 

[fowler9]

Lots of people don’t know about it.

This issue has been swept under the carpet so unfortunately he’s alighted onto something that legitimises him and therefore the rest of his agenda. Don’t let your hatred for Robinson blind you to that fact.

We are all talking about him on here - what does that tell you?

(I read about the German case too - utterly sickening - suddenly I’m in favour of the death penalty - don’t get me started)

Come off it mate. The women I sit next to in work rarely get past the Daily Mail sidebar of shame but they all "know" all Muslims are child abusers. Christ even my dad knows about it. All I am saying is Tommy Robinson brought nothing to anyone's attention. If you don't read the news how is this sh*t bag racist footy hooligan who assaults women and off duty police men suddenly going to wake you up to Pakistani sex gangs? Are we talking about people who don't read the regular press but read Daily Stormer and never had a clue?

 

[Bromley boy]

Come off it mate. The women I sit next to in work rarely get past the Daily Mail sidebar of shame but they all "know" all Muslims are child abusers. Christ even my dad knows about it. All I am saying is Tommy Robinson brought nothing to anyone's attention. If you don't read the news how is this sh*t bag racist footy hooligan who assaults women and off duty police men suddenly going to wake you up to Pakistani sex gangs? Are we talking about people who don't read the regular press but read Daily Stormer and never had a clue?

I think you need to look beyond the bigotry of the women who sit near you at work. And consider the wider picture.

Lots of people in this country will read those same news stories very differently to how you read them.

If you oppose the far right coming to power, the best way to do so isn’t by ignoring the very issues they can then jump onto!

How do you think Hitler came into power? (Hint: he was initially a democratically elected populist, who appealed to the baser instincts of many, at a time of widespread dissatisfaction, political malaise and economic stagnation - 1930s Germany parallels 2018 Britain in that respect).

Fast forward that scenario to 2018. Trump is in the whitehouse, buoyed on a tsunami of political discontent, Brexit has been voted for in the U.K., also based on a latent, smouldering anger at the political establishment, and you should recognise that we’re living in truly febrile political times.

With all that in mind, denial of legitimate concerns by mainstream politicians is a truly dangerous approach.

Mark my words!

 

[AlterEgo]

Never heard his comments on a white couple in Germany selling their kid for sex on the dark web.

To borrow a boring trope from earlier in the thread, “how do you know the German couple weren’t Muslims?”.

 

[fowler9]

I think you need to look beyond the bigotry of the women who sit near you at work. And consider the wider picture.

Lots of people in this country will read those same news stories very differently to how you read them.

If you oppose the far right coming to power, the best way to do so isn’t by ignoring the very issues they can then jump onto!

How do you think Hitler came into power? (Hint: he was initially a democratically elected populist, who appealed to the baser instincts of many, at a time of widespread dissatisfaction, political malaise and economic stagnation - 1930s Germany parallels 2018 Britain in that respect).

Fast forward that scenario to 2018. Trump is in the whitehouse, buoyed on a tsunami of political discontent, Brexit has been voted for in the U.K., also based on a latent, smouldering anger at the political establishment, and you should recognise that we’re living in truly febrile political times.

With all that in mind, denial of legitimate concerns by mainstream politicians is a truly dangerous approach.

Mark my words!

I get your point but how exactly do you address people's genuine concerns about Pakistani and Bangladeshi sex grooming gangs? You arrest them and bang them up. That is what is now happening. Tommy Robinson or whatever his real name is when he isn't trying to bunk in to America or whatever was not telling anyone anything they didn't know.

 

[Bromley boy]

And so it continues. Drip, drip, drip.

It’s beginning to look like we have only seen the tip of the iceberg so far. God only knows how many more cases are going to creep out of the woodwork.

The posters on this thread who seek to deny that there’s a big problem with Asian grooming gangs in this country should reflect on the below, and hang their heads in shame.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...ences-against-children-in-yorkshire-f092x67zx

Detectives have charged 31 people with offences including rape and trafficking after an investigation into sexual offences against children in Yorkshire.

The five alleged victims were girls aged between 12 and 18, with the offences said to have occurred between 2005 and 2012 in the Huddersfield area. West Yorkshire police said that 30 men and one woman will appear at Kirklees magistrates’ court on September 5 and 6.

A further 12 men, who cannot be named for legal reasons, have been charged with “numerous offences in connection with the same investigation”.

Police have named the accused as:

• Banaras Hussain, 37, of Shipley, charged with rape of a female over 16; Banaris Hussain, 35, of Huddersfield, charged with rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Mohammed Suhail Arif, 30, of Huddersfield, charged with rape of a girl aged 13-15; Iftikar Ali, 37, of Huddersfield, charged with attempted rape of a girl aged 13-15 and three counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Mohammed Sajjad, 31, of Huddersfield, charged with four counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15, one rape of a girl under 13 and facilitating the commission of a child sex offence.

• Fehreen Rafiq, 38, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of facilitating the commission of a child sex offence.

• Umar Zaman, 30, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Basharat Hussain, 31, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Amin Ali Choli, 36, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of rape of a female over 16.

• Shaqeel Hussain, 35, of Dewsbury, charged with rape of a girl aged 13-15 and two counts of trafficking.

• Mubasher Hussain, 35, of Huddersfield, charged with rape of a girl aged 13-15 and sexual assault.

• Abdul Majid, 34, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

•Mohammed Dogar, 35, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of facilitating the commission of child sex offence.

• Usman Ali, 32, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Mohammed Waqas Anwar, 29, of Huddersfield, charged with five counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Gul Riaz, 42, of Huddersfield, charged with rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Mohammed Akram, 41, of Huddersfield, charged with two counts of trafficking with a view to sexual exploitation of a female and rape of a girl aged 14-15.

• Manzoor Akhtar, 29, of Huddersfield, charged with trafficking and three counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.

• Samuel Fikru, 30, of Camden, charged with two counts of rape of a girl aged 13-15.
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