Told I shouldn't have taken a later train after delay on split ticket

[emorris]

Hi all

I am considering making a complaint to Northern but wanted to make sure I'm in the right first.

Yesterday I had two advance tickets, one for the 18:02 from St Pancras to Sheffield (EMR), then another for the 20:18 Sheffield to Barnsley (Northern). The reason for the two tickets is one was paid for by my employer, and the other I am expected to pay for as it forms my normal commute. Therefore they were booked at different times from different retailers, however I don't see how this would be any different to normal split tickets.

The EMR train was due to arrive in Sheffield 20:02, well under the minimum connection time, but arrived late at 20:20, therefore I missed my connection.

My understanding of the NR CoT is that despite having two tickets, this was considered a single journey, so I should be able to take the next available train with the same TOC.

As such I boarded the 20:35 Northern Huddersfield service which was the next service to call at Barnsley. Upon inspecting my ticket, the guard, rightly so, questioned the ticket for the wrong service, and I explained about the delayed EMR service. He then stated "I'll let you off this time but this isn't valid and I should be charging you a penalty fare" or words to that effect. I challenged this, arguing that two tickets can form a single journey as per the CoT, however he went on to make a number of statements such as "it's like having an EasyJet ticket and a Ryanair ticket - you're not covered if one is late", "if a revenue inspector had been on board you would have been charged a penalty fare" etc. etc.

I didn't put up much more of a fight - he'd already said he'd let me travel - but he said in the future:

• technically I should buy a new ticket and get a refund for the old - this would have cost me more because of an advance vs open; I'm also not sure this is a thing - it's not Northern that had the delay
• but I should ask the guard first before boarding and they might let me travel - my issue with this is what if they say no? If I can travel as per the CoT I shouldn't need to ask anyone anything.

Is my interpretation right or have I missed something?

TIA

 

[transportphoto]

As such I boarded the 20:35 Northern Huddersfield service which was the next service to call at Barnsley. Upon inspecting my ticket, the guard, rightly so, questioned the ticket for the wrong service, and I explained about the delayed EMR service. He then stated "I'll let you off this time but this isn't valid and I should be charging you a penalty fare" or words to that effect. I challenged this, arguing that two tickets can form a single journey as per the CoT, however he went on to make a number of statements such as "it's like having an EasyJet ticket and a Ryanair ticket - you're not covered if one is late", "if a revenue inspector had been on board you would have been charged a penalty fare" etc. etc.

The easiest summary here is that your understanding is correct, and the guard’s is incorrect. (Assuming you were able to show evidence of the ticket for London to Sheffield.)

Take a breather and suss out in a few days as to whether you’d like to complain.

Don’t forget to claim Delay Repay from EMR if over 15mins late to Barnsley.

 

[AlterEgo]

The guard was talking out of his fundament, of course.

You, the customer, are right, and the highly trained guard is wrong.

You were entitled to take the next available Northern train, which is what you did, in line with the conditions of that ticket.

I'd complain. Staff who hallucinate imaginary and conveniently hostile rules are not as rare as they ought to be.

As @transportphoto suggests, definitely claim delay repay here, too!

 

[jamiearmley]

Agreed.

Definitely complain.

Definitely claim delay repay.

I'm sorry this happened to you. It's not how we're trained to deal with these situations. In fact, it's in direct conflict with the conditions of carriage.

Had you travelled on my train, my only response would have been to show you how to claim delay repay for your entire journey, not just the East Midlands section, which you are also entirely entitled to do.

But please do complain. Colleagues like this make it harder for the rest of us who try to do things right.

 

[furlong]

The ORR (orr.gov.uk) is the body responsible for making sure train companies do not behave like this, so you should report what happened to it and try to persuade it to investigate your specific incident under consumer law. (Hint: it usually fobs people off with excuses as to why it won't do anything, but if that happens to you and you're willing to put its reply into the public domain, perhaps what appears to be a systemic dereliction of duty can be made more obvious and it might end up getting dragged into the wider railway prosecutions scandal as a facilitator that had the power to prevent some of the abuses but opted to ignore them instead of bringing prosecutions against any train companies that appeared either deliberately or negligently to be encouraging passengers to pay more than necessary.)

 

[Tram203]

Having had cause to make a not dissimilar complaint to another TOC earlier in the year, I'd advise to be as specific as possible within the complaint when stating the facts - date, time, service, tickets held, quoting any specific remarks made by the staff member that you can remember.

The more information you can give, the easier it should be for the staff member in question to be identified.

You may even strike lucky and be issued a goodwill gesture, further and separate to any delay repay monies.

 

[gray1404]

Your understanding is totally correct. You were entitled to take the next service and did not need to get permission before boarding.

I think you should complain about this as it says to me he is rejecting valid tickets. That Easyjet v Ryanair comment is dreadful.

Additionally if you were delayed 15 or more minutes do claim delay repay from EMR based on the value of both tickets.

You are totally in the right here.

 

[yorkie]

Claim Delay Repay from EMR (I had no issues claiming DR for EMR + Northern journeys during the ECML blockade a few months ago, each booked as one journey from Trainsplit) and also write a complaint to Northern

I have tweeted Northern, but it will get ignored, so a complaint is issued. Northern should promise to provide appropriate words of advice to the Guard and improve their training to staff.

I don't trust them to do this, but it is important to write in to complain. Please let us know how you get on.

Note that Northern may in future face legal trouble over these behaviours, so the more evidence we can obtain of complaints going to Northern, the better.