"Token" operated signalling problems?

[Donny158]

Last week I noticed that the line between Stranraer and Girvan was quoted as having delays/cancellations due to signalling problems. I have only ever travelled on this section of line the once but I seem to remember it being single line working and was signalled by "tokens" ( sorry if this is not the correct term as I'm no expert on these things.). So if the line is indeed signalled by tokens, what sort of things could have happened to create "signalling problems"?
I'm just curious as this system seems to me, in my very limited knowladge of rail signalling, an almost fool proof system!?. Many thanks.

 

[headshot119]

The token may be damaged, lost, or stuck in the machine.
The block wire may have been lost between the two boxes meaning a token couldn't be withdrawn.
Various other reasons.

 

[Railsigns]

The machines that issue the tokens are electrically linked to each other by cabling (formerly open wires carried on poles) that runs the length of the single line section. Like any lineside cables, they are vulnerable to occasional damage.

 

[Donny158]

Ahhh I see....I just assumed ithe system was something a bit more simple as all I saw was the signal man give the driver a big loop type thing by hand to through his cab window!

 

[Taunton]

All those single lines radiating from Taunton in the old days had tokens, and there was a standard procedure for handling the inability to get a token out, which did happen from time to time. Has that commonsense been lost?

There are a wide range of misfortunes that can befall them, starting with the whole lot (there used to be 20 per section*) all being up at one end. The automatic exchange equipment that was used at speed also used to give issues if the loco lurched at the wrong moment and the token was ejected, spinning through the air and generally into the middle of a hawthorn bush! Or they might just fall off the steam locomotive somewhere mid-section in the dark.

* : I'll explain here, for those who think there was only one token per section, that actually there were a large number, but the machines they lived in at each end's signalbox were electrically interlocked over the telegraph wires so you could only have one OUT at a time. This enabled trains to follow one another in the same direction. Double headed trains where the banker returned independently, dmus split at the terminus, or an imbalance in the service by trains coming back another way could lead to them being all up at one end; when first set up the lineman put 10 at each end. Incidentally, the big hoop is separate to the actual token.

 

[Tomnick]

The 'standard procedure' for use when a token can't be obtained because of a signalling equipment failure (or a lost or damaged token) is, as it has been for decades, the introduction of working by Pilotman. Suitably competent staff are relatively few and far between, though, nowadays (especially in a remote corner of Scotland), so it will inevitably take much longer to get everything set up to run trains.

 

[Delta558]

The 'standard procedure' for use when a token can't be obtained because of a signalling equipment failure (or a lost or damaged token) is, as it has been for decades, the introduction of working by Pilotman. Suitably competent staff are relatively few and far between, though, nowadays (especially in a remote corner of Scotland), so it will inevitably take much longer to get everything set up to run trains.

That may be how you deal with it up there (and I can see how it would create delays). Out west, under instruction from the signaller (whom you trust to know what trains might be in section) you fill out a form and proceed with his authority. Much quicker than waiting for a pilotman and, as the one signaller controls the entire route, it generally works very well.

 

[Maxfly]

That may be how you deal with it up there (and I can see how it would create delays). Out west, under instruction from the signaller (whom you trust to know what trains might be in section) you fill out a form and proceed with his authority. Much quicker than waiting for a pilotman and, as the one signaller controls the entire route, it generally works very well.

Sounds like modified/card working, we do that up here too. Authorised by rcm and 2hr time limit.

 

[Taunton]

I'm sure there were a range of approaches. The token machine could be opened up with a special key to get all the tokens out, and duly recorded in the register, but it was a simple lock and the fireside poker worked just as well. The GWR-pattern tokens were just dull stamped aluminium, but beyond Barnstaple the ex-LSWR lines had nice brass ones, which on a quiet Sunday morning shift the signalman would get out and Brasso them all up a treat!

 

[Tomnick]

Modified working is used on a couple of lines around here, but of course it can only be used where specially authorised (and even then needs Control's authority, with a time limit). I don't know whether it's permitted over the section in question, but (with two boxes involved) I'd suggest possibly not.

Incidentally, the special authority was withdrawn on one line when some changes to the signalling arrangements increased the risk of something going wrong (under modified working) to an unacceptable level - thankfully, safety still comes well ahead of performance.

Breaking into the instrument to obtain a token is definitely not a common-sense option - it's downright dangerous. Likewise, the S&T are rightly trusted to strictly follow the correct procedures when they turn up on a fault-finding mission, and issuing a token to the signalman from within the machine is certainly not on. I don't know whether this sort of thing happened in days gone by, but I really hope not - with the significant risk of getting it wrong and causing a terrible head-on collision, it's a whole world apart from waggling an electric lock with a carefully improvised kitchen knife.

 

[edwin_m]

On the lines that have no-signalman token operation today, passing stations normally have a pair of machines on each platform. This means that tokens are only ever taken out of the machine at the start of the section and only ever returned to the one at the end, so the technician must attend quite often to move all the tokens from the "end" machine to the "start" machine for the same section on the opposite platform.

I visited Princes Risborough box many years ago, when it was still in use, and at the time there was one more train per day on the Aylesbury single line in one direction than in the other. So every couple of weeks the technician had to take the tokens from one end to the other in a van.

Not sure if this was done by the technician over-riding the electrical locks or whether there was some mechanism to allow a whole magazine of tokens to be removed at once for transfer to another machine, with a means of preventing the tokens being removed from the magazine during this process.

Incidentally the kitchen knife in the electric lock has been responsible for at least one accident, though I don't remember which one.

 

[Tomnick]

There is provision in the relevant signalling regs for tokens to be transferred from one end of the section to the other (or from one instrument to another at the same location) - if I remember correctly, it's usually done simply by the technician issuing himself a number of tokens from within the instrument (and, crucially, keeping them in his possession until they've been replaced in the other instrument in a similar manner), potentially with trains still running normally whilst this is going on (again, not quite sure on that bit). On (some?) key token instruments, the technician can simply attach his own magazine to the instrument and quickly transfer some tokens to it for transfer, without having to go through the process of electrically releasing them.

By the way, I'm not condoning the possibility of operating electric locks with a knife! Again, I'd like to think that it doesn't happen nowadays (two of our boxes, the only ones with electric locks 'accessible', have clearly had simply modifications carried out at some point to prevent it), but I do know that it was a widespread practice at one time (and have the knife, now back in service for its intended purpose, to prove it!) - very risky indeed, but at least usually without the potential for a head-on collision on a single line.

 

[Hornet]

On the lines that have no-signalman token operation today, passing stations normally have a pair of machines on each platform. This means that tokens are only ever taken out of the machine at the start of the section and only ever returned to the one at the end, so the technician must attend quite often to move all the tokens from the "end" machine to the "start" machine for the same section on the opposite platform.

I visited Princes Risborough box many years ago, when it was still in use, and at the time there was one more train per day on the Aylesbury single line in one direction than in the other. So every couple of weeks the technician had to take the tokens from one end to the other in a van.

Not sure if this was done by the technician over-riding the electrical locks or whether there was some mechanism to allow a whole magazine of tokens to be removed at once for transfer to another machine, with a means of preventing the tokens being removed from the magazine during this process.

Incidentally the kitchen knife in the electric lock has been responsible for at least one accident, though I don't remember which one.

I can remember moving Tokens from Bourne End back to Maidenhead back in the 1970's. We would pick up the Relief Signalman at Slough, who would have the key to unlock the Token Machine, and go over to Bourne End. Under authority from the Signalman at Slough, we would open the Token Machine and lift the Electric Lock, take out the Tokens and hand the Relief Signalman the requisite number of Tokens to be moved, which was recorded by him, and the Slough Signalman in the Train Register. We would then go to Maidenhead and repeat the procedure to open the Token Machine, lift the lock and insert the requisite Tokens. Again this was recorded by both the Relief Signalman, and the Signalman at Slough in the Train Register. This was normally done on Sunday when there were no Trains in operation on the Branch. Any unauthorised opening of the Token Machine and lifting of the Electric Lock was a top end disciplinary offence which could lead to dismissal.

 

[matchmaker]

There is provision in the relevant signalling regs for tokens to be transferred from one end of the section to the other (or from one instrument to another at the same location) - if I remember correctly, it's usually done simply by the technician issuing himself a number of tokens from within the instrument (and, crucially, keeping them in his possession until they've been replaced in the other instrument in a similar manner), potentially with trains still running normally whilst this is going on (again, not quite sure on that bit). On (some?) key token instruments, the technician can simply attach his own magazine to the instrument and quickly transfer some tokens to it for transfer, without having to go through the process of electrically releasing them.

Not all key token instruments have/had provision for a magazine, although I've seen a few. I suspect they would only have been used at locations where unblanced working was normal. There's a bit in the 1969 ScR Sectional Appendix - I'll check it later.

 

[Taunton]

You maybe think those old-time signalmen down in Somerset were a casual lot. Actually, they were fully professional, generally railway "lifers" who had been around a long time, and knew exactly what they were doing. They could probably give the S&T inspector a run for their money on how all the equipment worked.

The token is not the only thing that lets the train onto the single line, it's just a further protection. There is standard block working between the signalboxes as well, offering and accepting, and also the starting signal into the single line is interlocked with the token machine issuing a token in the proper way. Everyone knew everyone else and that they could rely on them, and any prospect of an additional train was known in a moment from the "chat" that took place as tokens were exchanged. That driver who had let the token fall from the loco somewhere in the dark was still "Dropper" to everyone about 15 years later.

 

[Tomnick]

You maybe think those old-time signalmen down in Somerset were a casual lot. Actually, they were fully professional, generally railway "lifers" who had been around a long time, and knew exactly what they were doing. They could probably give the S&T inspector a run for their money on how all the equipment worked.

I suppose that the same was probably said of the staff involved in the accident at Abermule, the signalmen at Quintinshill and many more besides. Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the chaps in Somerset routinely 'broke into' the instruments to improperly obtain tablets? Getting them out to clean them is one thing, but doing so for traffic purposes is quite another, and nothing short of downright dangerous.

The token is not the only thing that lets the train onto the single line, it's just a further protection. There is standard block working between the signalboxes as well, offering and accepting, and also the starting signal into the single line is interlocked with the token machine issuing a token in the proper way.

Correct, but the section signal won't be released if the token isn't obtained properly, so that doesn't help. Yes, block working is maintained by bell signals, but that alone isn't dissimilar to the early arrangements where trains were passed over single lines simply by exchanging telegraph messages - it didn't take long to establish, under tragic circumstances between Norwich and Brundall, that that was far from sufficient. I think you vastly underestimate the importance of the token.

YYes, Everyone knew everyone else and that they could rely on them, and any prospect of an additional train was known in a moment from the "chat" that took place as tokens were exchanged. That driver who had let the token fall from the loco somewhere in the dark was still "Dropper" to everyone about 15 years later.

It seems to me that all concerned were very lucky indeed to get away with such irregular working on what seems to have been a regular basis. The need for a robust system to ensure the integrity of single line sections was well established by then, and working outside that system and the official methods of degraded working meant that a single basic error could have led to a terrible accident.

Above all else, the implication that we lack common sense because we don't work like that nowadays is truly astounding!

 

[6Gman]

On a certain token-worked branch in North Wales the loco sat for a while at the terminus. The driver visited a ladyfriend, the fireman went for a walk.

This worked fine until a lady who felt wronged by the driver (or possibly a cuckolded hubby?) visited the station and stole the token.

The returning crew found a loco and no token. It took some explaining.




Allegedly.

 

[fsmr]

And dont think going over to electronics helps. We were stuck for over an hour in Aug 2012 at Whitby waiting for the return afternoon NYMR steamer over the NWR section after the token got lost in the ether and stopped the job.

We were told someone had to go and retrieve it with portable device from miles away and bring it back to Grosmont before the train could proceed onto NWR metals Apparently it happens regularly. It also highlighted the issue with the single platform and no on station run around at Whitby when trains are late and need a quick turnaround which has now been addressed.

 

[snowball]

The idea of an RETB token getting lost in the ether isn't too hard to imagine, but your description makes it sound as if it was then lurking in a specific place in the ether, and the portable device was used to track it down and bring it back, as if it was a lost dog!

 

[fsmr]

The idea of an RETB token getting lost in the ether isn't too hard to imagine, but your description makes it sound as if it was then lurking in a specific place in the ether, and the portable device was used to track it down and bring it back, as if it was a lost dog!

LOL I am sure someone with technical understanding of quite what goes wrong on the Whitby line with RETB will be along soon but I gathered from the NYMR staff at the time that it was not an uncommon thing to happen which makes running a profitable on time heritage service kind of hard

 

[Railsigns]

There is no RETB on the Whitby line. Physical tokens are used.

 

[Tomnick]

I suppose one of the biggest failings with RETB on the Whitby line is that there is no RETB on the Whitby line! It's NSTR - conventional tokens in conventional instruments, all supervised from Nunthorpe box. Did this occur before an intermediate instrument was installed at Grosmont? I don't know whether regular services operated at that time, but a token had to be obtained from either Glaisdale or Whitby and taken by road to Grosmont whenever a movement was to be made from the NYMR through the ground frame.

 

[455driver]

On a certain token-worked branch in North Wales the loco sat for a while at the terminus. The driver visited a ladyfriend, the fireman went for a walk.

This worked fine until a lady who felt wronged by the driver (or possibly a cuckolded hubby?) visited the station and stole the token.

The returning crew found a loco and no token. It took some explaining.




Allegedly.

On a similar vein, on a certain lake district branch line, I am aware of a driver going to do some shopping and leaving the token in amongst the veg and not realising until he got back to the other end of the branch!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Oh dear! I'll guess that his explanations didn't butter any parsnips.

 

[fsmr]

I suppose one of the biggest failings with RETB on the Whitby line is that there is no RETB on the Whitby line! It's NSTR - conventional tokens in conventional instruments, all supervised from Nunthorpe box. Did this occur before an intermediate instrument was installed at Grosmont? I don't know whether regular services operated at that time, but a token had to be obtained from either Glaisdale or Whitby and taken by road to Grosmont whenever a movement was to be made from the NYMR through the ground frame.

Hi Tom must have been as the train was stuck for over an hour at Grosmont while we all waited at Whitby with no other stock on the line between Grosmont and Whitby. TBH I wasn't taking much notice of trackside signage and operation being on a day trip from Pickering with the family under strict instruction not to get involved with the trains so when the staff at Whitby explained what had happened and someone had had to drive miles away to get the token , assumed it must be RETB so no idea what went on I know NYMR got a lot of stick over it but it wasnt their fault