Toilets not available

[trainophile]

Railway Info ‏@RailwayInfo_ 6m

#FirstCapitalConnect 08:16 Brighton to Bedford due 10:49: Toilets are not available.


Quite apart from the fact that this appears to have been posted on Twitter just after the train reached its destination :roll:, is it acceptable to put on a 2.5 hour service without this basic facility?

Presumably a comfort stop was arranged at some point(?), although there's nothing to say that happened.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Would you rather the service be cancelled?

 

[GB]

is it acceptable to put on a 2.5 hour service without this basic facility?

Quite frankly, yes it is.

 

[cf111]

The only time I've been on a long-distance (I dare not call it InterCity!) journey where the toilets failed we had a comfort stop. It was a Glasgow to Inverness train, both toilets were out of use by Kingnussie, and a stop was arranged at Aviemore for those wishing to use the facilities.

 

[trainophile]

If I knew in advance I probably wouldn't get on it anyway, so it might as well be cancelled as far as I'm concerned.

Okay, run it if that's the only option, but at least make people aware of the situation before rather than after it is underway.

I don't know what this service is, but if it's a stopper/commuter then perhaps the situation isn't too bad, but for people travelling the entire length, well they wouldn't have had to have too much coffee with their breakfast!

 

[47802]

I was a London Midland Crewe service on Saturday no working Toilets on that either, however there was a Toilet break at Rugby and Stafford.

 

[causton]

How many people travel on it end to end? Surely it's better than cancelling it as you'd probably run it ecs to fix the toilet anyway?

How many people board that particular train at a station without toilets and are going to a station without toilets that are travelling a long distance to necessitate toilet breaks (say 1hr+) that cannot wait up to 15 minutes for the next train? Not very many I'd assume. Would be pretty annoyed if it was cancelled and I was going to travel on it!

 

[PermitToTravel]

FCC trains don't carry conductors, and many of them are ancient without computer systems to report on the status of the toilets, so I expect they'll only have found out about the defect when someone told them. This does often happen by Twitter soon after departure, but sometimes people only complain to the station staff at the end of their journey

I remember a story about a commuter telling station staff at Amersham that someone looking suspicious had boarded a train at Aldgate, deposited a large rucksack, and left at Liverpool Street. When asked why they continued to sit next to the suspect package for an over an hour, rather than report it immediately, they replied that they didn't wish to delay their journey.

 

[A-driver]

There is a train every 15 mins on that route, no one travels end to end on it so to be honest it's not that much of a problem. If that desperate you can get off and wait for the next one 15mins later, or depending on tickets etc get a southern train etc over the same route. Plus many of the stations have toilets so it's not as bigger deal as it sounds. If we were talking non stop London-York for example then that would be different.

 

[Gemz91]

Okay, run it if that's the only option, but at least make people aware of the situation before rather than after it is underway.
!

Fairly confident they would have made station announcements before the train arrived/departed. Don't think they'd have expected all the passengers to check twitter for toilet updates before boarding the train.

 

[Searle]

Okay, run it if that's the only option, but at least make people aware of the situation before rather than after it is underway.
!

Fairly confident they would have made station announcements before the train arrived/departed. Don't think they'd have expected all the passengers to check twitter for toilet updates before boarding the train.

Quite frankly I disagree. Never ever heard announcements like that and I highly doubt FCC are competent enough to do it themselves or tell southern about it. All the announcements from FCC I've heard (apart from maybe major stations) are automated

 

[Lockwood]

I've been on Brighton to Southampton services (1 3/4-2hr ) with no toilet.
The display screen said "No first class or toilets on this service"
Didn't stop people complaining about it, but at least they knew about it.

 

[Be3G]

I wonder whether, in such a situation, a passenger choosing to wait for the next service (with toilets on board) could claim delay repay? There will be some people out there who would probably be reluctant to go for such a long journey without access to facilities.

(I realise there isn't specifically a condition of delay repay that says this would be permitted – my question is more about the willingness of TOCs to be helpful in this respect.)

 

[Gemz91]

Quite frankly I disagree. Never ever heard announcements like that and I highly doubt FCC are competent enough to do it themselves or tell southern about it. All the announcements from FCC I've heard (apart from maybe major stations) are automated

Iv'e heard it a number times, various stations, operated by various tocs (Sheffieild, Stockport, Lincoln and Nottingham stations all spring to mind). Although, I've not had much experience traveling with FCC. Also I suppose it depends how pro active the station staff are when receiving the information.

 

[hassaanhc]

SWT sometimes show on their Journeycheck page under "Other Train Service Updates" if a service doesn't have toilets on board (only if it was meant to have them in the first place). I've seen this on the Waterloo-Reading a few times (combined with no First Class message) and also on a Waterloo-Southampton Central once (both messages combined). However this doesn't happen if a 455 is used on the Hounslow loop services on weekdays (on weekends that service and Weybridge via Hounslow appears to be booked 455).

 

[A-driver]

I wonder whether, in such a situation, a passenger choosing to wait for the next service (with toilets on board) could claim delay repay? There will be some people out there who would probably be reluctant to go for such a long journey without access to facilities.



(I realise there isn't specifically a condition of delay repay that says this would be permitted – my question is more about the willingness of TOCs to be helpful in this respect.)

When you say 'such a long journey' what do you mean? How many boarding at Brighton are going as far as Bedford? The vast majority of thameslink passengers are on the train for about an hour-many for less than that. Considering many London commuter routes run for am hour or so with no toilets it's hardly a big deal. And the vast majority can go to the toilet at the station before boarding. This really isn't the big deal people are making it out to be!

 

[Be3G]

I was replying to the post directly before mine (in which case I tend to avoid using quotes) – the one about a Brighton to Southampton journey. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Also, I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it: it was a genuine question.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've been on Brighton to Southampton services (1 3/4-2hr ) with no toilet.
The display screen said "No first class or toilets on this service"

That's easier to manage, as the 313s never have first class or toilets. They're not defective, they just don't have them.

I'm surprised that all four toilets on a 2x319 service were out of order, that implies to me that there was a tanking failure earlier in the day. That I have less tolerance of, but it's better than cancelling the train.

 

[sarahj]

I'm amazed at all these 313's that seem to go from Brighton to Southampton (one was mentioned during the issue at lancing post). Since none are timetabled to go that way, though one did go by mistake last friday due to the many issues.

313's are found on:
Brighton - Hove shuttles
Brighton - Lewes
Brighton - Seaford
Brighton - West Worthings (a couple in the PM and AM peaks to/.from Littlehamton)
Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour
Littlehampton to Portsmouth and Southsea
Littlehampton to Bognor
Bognor to Barnham shuttles.
Also about one a day goes to/from Eastbourne to Brighton.

Anyway, one thing you see quite a lot is someone come up to the lav, push the open button, and when it does not open storm off saying, crap, rubbish etc. Reason it did not open, someone in. I have to admit that the little light on 377's are not the greatest. I guess its trying to come up with a sign saying:

No light: Vacant
Light: Engaged
Flashing Light : out of order

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A lot of stock working was messed up from Sunday , and of course Monday on FCC - so a rebalancing of units took priority over some CET discharge. Efforts made to clear the backlog of watering and emptying.

Boring point - toilets tend to be more used at weekends ! Obvious link here with Friday and Saturday events.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Quite frankly I disagree. Never ever heard announcements like that and I highly doubt FCC are competent enough to do it themselves or tell southern about it. All the announcements from FCC I've heard (apart from maybe major stations) are automated

Another insulting remark about FCC staff.

When toilets are not available, and they have been made aware, you will see it on their website.
The message does go to Southern.
Whether Southern choose to advise passengers south of the river is down to them, unfortunately.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm surprised that all four toilets on a 2x319 service were out of order, that implies to me that there was a tanking failure earlier in the day. That I have less tolerance of, but it's better than cancelling the train.

The 08.16 from Brighton is only booked to be a 4 car.
Usually the FCC cleaners at Brighton attempt to tank every train on arrival, but sometimes if the inwards service is late, then they are refused.

 

[yorksrob]

That's easier to manage, as the 313s never have first class or toilets. They're not defective, they just don't have them.

I'm surprised that all four toilets on a 2x319 service were out of order, that implies to me that there was a tanking failure earlier in the day. That I have less tolerance of, but it's better than cancelling the train.

I agree. It's very annoying when you're on the train on a nice crisp morning and there's no water. Means someone's not got their hosepipe out

 

[Lockwood]

I'm amazed at all these 313's that seem to go from Brighton to Southampton (one was mentioned during the issue at lancing post). Since none are timetabled to go that way, though one did go by mistake last friday due to the many issues.

ISTR on the one I was on the guard apologised for the alteration to the service.
I'm guessing that there was some clever technical reason why they took the intended 377 off and replaced it with a 313?

Edit: Just used a popular search engine and found this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jmupton2000/8441927838/in/set-72157629332481848

 

[Clip]

I am always amazed by people who complain of toilets not being available on services like this(and more over the state of the trains - as per the Which? thread) yet they do not realise that a lot of the time these are broken through the actions of their own fellow passengers - some of whom go out of their way to block the things on purpose.

 

[trainophile]

I am always amazed by people who complain of toilets not being available on services like this(and more over the state of the trains - as per the Which? thread) yet they do not realise that a lot of the time these are broken through the actions of their own fellow passengers - some of whom go out of their way to block the things on purpose.

It's still no consolation for the law-abiding majority though. It might be a 'big society' but we're not responsible for the louts.

 

[Tetchytyke]

they do not realise that a lot of the time these are broken through the actions of their own fellow passengers - some of whom go out of their way to block the things on purpose.

I'm not so sure that I agree that toilets are "often" broken through the actions of other passengers. Sometimes they are, of course, but IME most of the toilet problems have stemmed from an inability to flush the toilet. One person can't flush it but uses it, a second person does the same, and very quickly the whole thing is jammed solid with toilet paper and everything else.

You see this fairly often on Northern where a train hasn't been tanked (although, to their credit, this has improved a lot in the last year or two) and on CrossCountry where the waste retention tank is full.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'm amazed at all these 313's that seem to go from Brighton to Southampton (one was mentioned during the issue at lancing post). Since none are timetabled to go that way, though one did go by mistake last friday due to the many issues.

313's are found on:
Brighton - Hove shuttles
Brighton - Lewes
Brighton - Seaford
Brighton - West Worthings (a couple in the PM and AM peaks to/.from Littlehamton)
Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour
Littlehampton to Portsmouth and Southsea
Littlehampton to Bognor
Bognor to Barnham shuttles.
Also about one a day goes to/from Eastbourne to Brighton.

Plus the weekday only service from Brighton - Ore, which I think is the 0752.

 

[howittpie]

Remember a number of years ago travelling on the Penzance-Manchester Wales and Borders service that had no functioning toilets. Nothing was announced when boarding Newton Abbot the train was packed and by Shrewsbury they opened one of the toilets as passengers were getting desperate.

If memory serves me right part of the problem was communication as it was a Wessex train to Bristol and then a Wales and Borders service north from there and the crew from Bristol knew nothing of the problem.

 

[Greenback]

I think it's disgusting that there are no toilets on such a long journey as Ealing Broadway to Epping.

 

[Clip]

It's still no consolation for the law-abiding majority though. It might be a 'big society' but we're not responsible for the louts.

It is no consolation but short of removing a train from service,as has already been said, what do you expect us to do at peak time?

I'm not so sure that I agree that toilets are "often" broken through the actions of other passengers. Sometimes they are, of course, but IME most of the toilet problems have stemmed from an inability to flush the toilet. One person can't flush it but uses it, a second person does the same, and very quickly the whole thing is jammed solid with toilet paper and everything else.

.

Yes, aware of that and because of the water not being tanked but on such an intensive service with such a short turn around at peak times its pretty hard to keep them tanked as inevitably in the morning they get used often within about 3/4 stops at times by a lot of people so by the time a train gets half way its empty - cant tank it any more so the complaints then come from those later on.

Was an enlightening visit to one of my depots the other week to see the,erm, ****, that was stuffed down the toilet, even during peak service, like what appeared to be a full box of tampons. Not good and doesnt help the problem.