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Toiletless trains blamed for forced door openings

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Falcon1200

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Indeed which is why they should be addressing why they couldn't reconfigure the infrastructure to get power restored to some of the lines and remedying that deficiency.

Did the nature and extent of the overhead line damage allow that?

Are there sufficient Section Insulators and/or Neutral Sections in suitable places to allow that?

Even if those conditions were met, how long would it have taken to carry out switching and earthing to allow part of the area to be re-energised?
 
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Bikeman78

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I'm always amazed at how frequently people need the loo on a train. Despite travelling literally from one end of the country to another, on thousands of trains, I have only once needed to use the toilet on a train - it was on the Great Eastern Main Line in 1986.
Young children don't tend to give much warning that they need to use the loo. I always insisted mine use the toilet before going on a 313 or 315. Even as an adult, it is surprising how quickly the need yo go sometimes arises. I recall heading north somehwere around Bowes Park or Palmers Green. I knew there was a toilet at Hertford North. Had it been locked up, it would have got quite messy!
 

PyrahnaRanger

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Clearly counting up to 1000 people off the train and out of the access point in one hit is a non starter. It would only take a small distraction for one of the counters to lose count. You would have to do it in groups of 20 or so
Clicker counters, for want of a better name, would assist in this. I’ve seen guards using them to count how many passengers they have, and they’re small and light enough to be in an emergency kit. We used to use them to check loadings on school buses.

I'm always amazed at how frequently people need the loo on a train. Despite travelling literally from one end of the country to another, on thousands of trains, I have only once needed to use the toilet on a train - it was on the Great Eastern Main Line in 1986.
Bully for you. Time before last I came back from London, something had triggered my IBS, and a reservation in coach A of an 11 coach pendolino was very nearly a disastrous distance from the loos at Euston
 

Bletchleyite

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Bully for you. Time before last I came back from London, something had triggered my IBS, and a reservation in coach A of an 11 coach pendolino was very nearly a disastrous distance from the loos at Euston

I've never understood why we treat toilet disabilities as less important than other ones. They're still disabilities and should be taken seriously.

Many people are prevented from using public places like parks due to the lack of facilities, and I'm sure that applies to trains and buses too. Though I think most people would consider fitting toilets to trains a reasonable adjustment but probably not fitting them to urban buses, though I do think non-provision on the likes of the Stagecoach X5 (a two hour journey) very poor.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Did the nature and extent of the overhead line damage allow that?
We don't know as i say unless RAIB investigate the industry doesn't like to reveal anything.
Are there sufficient Section Insulators and/or Neutral Sections in suitable places to allow that?

Even if those conditions were met, how long would it have taken to carry out switching and earthing to allow part of the area to be re-energised?
Probably not so we dont know but given how important Elizabeth Line is now it needs to be better protected against faults/failures on adjacent lines. Reality is 345s arent getting toilets nor can we expect an army of resources on hand to deal with such events so the infrastructure needs to have high levels of resilience.
 

AM9

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Probably not so we dont know but given how important Elizabeth Line is now it needs to be better protected against faults/failures on adjacent lines. Reality is 345s arent getting toilets nor can we expect an army of resources on hand to deal with such events so the infrastructure needs to have high levels of resilience.
Which is the right answer.
 

Bikeman78

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IMHO a bigger issue is passengers stuck on a train in this sort of (admittedly brief) hot weather for this order of time is the opposite - the need to take in liquid i.e. water. Sure there are announcements etc everywhere advising carry water as a precaution but I'll suggest the majority of passengers, especially on short distance metro hops (and as likely to be stalled as anyone else on the train) do not have anything.
This is an interesting point. I used several 345s in the heatwave last week. Let's say the outside temperature is 30C (which it was last week). How long would it take a full and standing 345 without power to become unbearably hot inside? I would say an hour at best.
 

Travelmonkey

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I've never understood why we treat toilet disabilities as less important than other ones. They're still disabilities and should be taken seriously.
It is definitely an overlooked area, even though I use a crutch also I was physically removed from a changing places last month by a cleaner, my complaint to the council came with the response "he was just doing as he was told". Tbh any hidden disabilities are often overlooked and dismissed.
 

Bletchleyite

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It is definitely an overlooked area, even though I use a crutch also I was physically removed from a changing places last month by a cleaner, my complaint to the council came with the response "he was just doing as he was told". Tbh any hidden disabilities are often overlooked and dismissed.

I'd make a big thing of that. It is totally unacceptable conduct both on the part of the cleaner and the Council.

Local press should be able to help there.
 

Travelmonkey

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I'd make a big thing of that. It is totally unacceptable conduct both on the part of the cleaner and the Council.

Local press should be able to help there.
Oh I am taking it seriously although I've often had refusals for changing places but that was my first time being forced out of one.
 

Wolfie

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It is definitely an overlooked area, even though I use a crutch also I was physically removed from a changing places last month by a cleaner, my complaint to the council came with the response "he was just doing as he was told". Tbh any hidden disabilities are often overlooked and dismissed.
That is the Council admitting their ignorance of the Equality Act 2010. If you have that in writing your MP, relevant disabilities groups and the media will have an absolute field day....
 

johncrossley

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I've never understood why we treat toilet disabilities as less important than other ones. They're still disabilities and should be taken seriously.

Many people are prevented from using public places like parks due to the lack of facilities, and I'm sure that applies to trains and buses too. Though I think most people would consider fitting toilets to trains a reasonable adjustment but probably not fitting them to urban buses, though I do think non-provision on the likes of the Stagecoach X5 (a two hour journey) very poor.

I'm getting to an age where I have to plan my toilet breaks when travelling, or at least make sure I use the toilet when one is conveniently available. I suppose this issue falls into the grey area between illness and disability. If you have a chronic health condition that isn't a recognised disability, public services don't generally have to make allowances for you.
 

Travelmonkey

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That is the Council admitting their ignorance of the Equality Act 2010. If you have that in writing your MP, relevant disabilities groups and the media will have an absolute field day....
Kinda wish I had got it in writing, it was a short snap phonecall as I was boarding a train, although I have people looking into it, it's not just that councils national dragon that can bring the fire , although to bring things back to more topic I am hoping acsess to the south Wales Changing places are a bit more easy at the TFW stations, I know they are probably the best TOC for their provision of them vital facilities.
 

starlight73

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Kinda wish I had got it in writing, it was a short snap phonecall as I was boarding a train, although I have people looking into it, it's not just that councils national dragon that can bring the fire , although to bring things back to more topic I am hoping acsess to the south Wales Changing places are a bit more easy at the TFW stations, I know they are probably the best TOC for their provision of them vital facilities.
would you feel like a sunflower lanyard could help? (I have a non-visible disability too)
And sorry to hear about your really frustrating experience (plus I don’t think there’s legal grounds for someone who’s not committing a crime to be physically removed from a toilet/changing space?)

sorry if this is off topic - i could start a new thread
 

Howardh

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Ultimately, you will have to make different choices about your travel then. It isn't ideal for you but there is no chance of those trains being retrofitted with toilets anytime soon.
As someone with postrate issues, I have to plan my day around the availability of facilities. As an example, probably the most severe, is when I've a flight to catch, I can have zero intake of liquids for hours before getting to the airport as I know there will be queues at (a) Check-in - which tbh I rarely need (b) Security, even with "fast-track and (c) waiting to board in the corridor before and after ticket check.

No lounging around with a couple of beers for me!! Does make travel miserable and worrying. So if a train had no toilets for a journey of an hour or more I'm not sure I could take that train - or have to get off/on at some point thus invalidating an advance. The last bus from manchester to Bolton (60' journey) after a night out is impossible for me!! Even Bustitutions are out of the question.

On the positive side the GP has given me postrate-shrinking medication which does seem to be working making life much easier and less stressful. Anyone with the same condition should ask their GP about it!
 

thomalex

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Sadly the need to evacuate oneself cannot at times be avoided. In waiting for the train to be evacuated those folks who forced the doors open clearly needed to relieve themselves. Does anyone seriously expect public funds to be wasted on prosecutions of these individuals? Had they done their business in the carriage what then? Charges of gross indecency?

If anything it’s the train operators that should be prosecuted for leaving passengers trapped on a train for this long
 

nanstallon

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If anything it’s the train operators that should be prosecuted for leaving passengers trapped on a train for this long
Quite. It is high time that TOCs stopped abandoning their customers, and expecting them to meekly stay imprisoned for hours on a train. As for bone-headed prosecutions of people who dare to escape, well how pathetic can the British get/
 

nanstallon

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The average Brit is far more authoritarian than they'd care to admit and the railways are a great way to bring this to light, both the public and railway staff.

One this this country is still great at is banning things.
This is the strange thing - I've been a railway enthusiast for 60 years, but have always hated the authoritarian mentality of the British. The hysterical attitude to trespass being one of those manifestations of an authoritarian mindset. And worst of all are the security jobsworths, who even go beyond the official restrictions. Having travelled on a steam special to Shrewsbury, and wanting to take a photo of 'Britannia' as she went onto the front of the train for its return journey I went to the end of the platform, not beyond the trespass notice,heaven forbid! Only to be shouted at by a security guy hired for the event, even though I was within the public realm. I should have been born in a more easy going country, perhaps become a Portuguese railway enthusiast!
 
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