Todmorden Curve

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As above, it's not the civil works that are holding things up it is waiting for another outfit's cast-offs that is delaying the service.

Thank goodness that the bus companies in the area are not subject to such matters of operational stupidity and TransDev have always served the good people of Burnley to high-quality modern buses on the X43 "Lancashire Witch" service to Manchester that recently saw even more modern brand-new double deck buses added to its dedicated fleet and offer a 15 minute service during the main part of the working day.

 

[STANDISH]

The Topper Chopper rail tour will not be running over the Curve on the 24th May ,but might run on the 31st May if work is completed next weekend.

Check out Pathfinders web site for full details.

 

[Darren R]

Just wondering if there are any conceivable freight uses for the new chord?

Or, is this this part of the network a freight blind alley?

No freight has originated in East Lancashire for over a year now since Gilbrath's in Blackburn ceased sending freight by rail; even before that freight trains from Blackburn were few and irregular. There isn't a huge amount of freight over Copy Pit - mostly between Preston Docks and Lindsey Oil Refinery (although this is a regular flow) and from Clitheroe Castle Cement. The Todmorden curve doesn't open up new freight possibilities that don't already exist: between the Manchester area and East Lancs or north thereof from Carlisle and Scotland. If such flows exist (I don't know if they do - I haven't checked) they go via Shap and the WCML.

The Todmorden curve is destined to be passenger only: however, it opens up a lot of opportunities for charter trains. Steam-hauled circular mini-tours from Manchester Victoria (or even off the East Lancashire Railway if the signalling at Castleton allows passenger workings to/from the ELR) via Copy Pit, Blackburn and Bolton, for instance.

 

[edwin_m]

If such flows exist (I don't know if they do - I haven't checked) they go via Shap and the WCML.

Or Clitheroe and the S&C. I was slightly surprised to see two freights in 10min while waiting for a connection at Blackburn a few years back.

But I do agree with the point that it's not much use for freight. Provides an indirect alternative for Manchester to Preston and that's about all.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

It will be workable to turn it back at Hebden Bridge without causing delay so long as it follows the Blackpool-York, and then slots between the Leeds-Bradford-Man Vic stopper and the York-Blackpool. Not a great deal of choice really!

That would be 3 trains westbound in 10 minutes through Hebden Bridge, where the headway is supposedly 6 minutes!

 

[Deerfold]

As above, it's not the civil works that are holding things up it is waiting for another outfit's cast-offs that is delaying the service.

Still, presume the chord will be operationally available for "specials"?

Whilst we know there will be no through service to Todmorden until more units are freed up -

The line through Todmorden was closed all weekend but as of this morning the new signals are still covered up, and the new curve still has a wooden barrier chained across it.

NRE is not showing any closures for next weekend so I wonder when the work will be formally completed.

This is what we've been discussing for the last few posts (given the timetable change which includes Todmorden terminators starts in just a few days time).

 

[Sox]

The Todmorden curve is destined to be passenger only: however, it opens up a lot of opportunities for charter trains. Steam-hauled circular mini-tours from Manchester Victoria (or even off the East Lancashire Railway if the signalling at Castleton allows passenger workings to/from the ELR) via Copy Pit, Blackburn and Bolton, for instance.

Talking about steam hauled, made me think that there will shortly be a new "turning triangle" available (assuming that the new chord can be operationally used in this manner).

So maybe this will also open further opportunities?

 

[chrissawer]

This is what we've been discussing for the last few posts (given the timetable change which includes Todmorden terminators starts in just a few days time).

From http://www.pathfindertours.co.uk/

"final commissioning of the new Todmorden Curve has slipped back to the 24/25th May [...] We have received confirmation from Network Rail, DRS and Riviera Trains today that [the Topper Chopper] will now operate on Saturday 31st May to the original itinerary"

Sounds fairly definite, although NRE is still not showing any disruption for the Caldervale line around Todmorden on the bank holiday weekend.

 

[Llama]

The Todmorden turnbacks this Sunday are all booked to run to Hebden Bridge to use the crossover there.

 

[muddythefish]

No freight has originated in East Lancashire for over a year now since Gilbrath's in Blackburn ceased sending freight by rail; even before that freight trains from Blackburn were few and irregular. .

Off topic but does anyone know why Galbraiths have stopped using rail ? I remember the Blackburn area in the 1960s and 1970s generated a huge amount of freight traffic from several depots.

 

[Sox]

Wide coverage in the LT about the "curve":

Thing is Cornholme is only 3 miles from Todmorden.

CAMPAIGNERS hope that their plans for a new station will receive high-level support — just as an important piece of track nears completion a few hundred yards away.

Supporters of the Cornholme Railway Station Action Group (CRAG) are looking to draw up a feasibility study to reintroduce a train service for the village for the first time since 1938.

Not only would the service regenerate Cornholme but provide a more convenient inter-city link for villagers in nearby Cliviger and Worsthorne, they claim.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11216216.High_hopes_for_new_Cornholme_rail_station/

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9108250.Cornholme_villagers_bid_for_new_rail_station/

Cornholme villagers bid for new rail station

4:43pm Monday 27th June 2011

A CAMPAIGN has been launched by villagers to open a new railway station halfway between Burnley and Todmorden.

And if the new halt at Cornholme and Portsmouth becomes a reality, the journey time to Manchester for commuters could be as little as 40 minutes.

More than 120 people in the neighbouring communities have so far expressed an interest in the bid for the station, which would be on the Caldervale line between Burnley Manchester Road and Hebden Bridge.

Campaign spokesman Rachel Julian said: “It all started around the discussions to reopen the Todmorden Curve.

“If they are going to restore the curve then this would have clear advantages for people living in this area.”

Questionnaires have been drawn up and have been handed out via Cornholme School, the post office in Burnley Road and nearby general store.

Originally, each of the two villages had its own station, both constructed by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railways company and opened in 1849.

But the Cornholme stop was closed in September 1938 and the Portsmouth station only lasted until July 1958.

The station would be accessible for people living in Cliviger and Worsthorne.

Under the West Yorkshire regional railway plan, a station for the area is listed as an aim.

To shows that this has been an on-going matter, I have gone back as far as 2011 in this thread and have come up with this posting.

 

[CalderRail]

Campaigns for re-opening either Cornholme or Portsmouth stations on the Copy Pit line - or building a new station half-way between them - have been going on for years. The problem with either of the original station sites is that there isn't enough population density to make them viable.

There could be a case for building a station if new houses were built in the area, but - ironically - there isn't the case for building new houses because the transport links are poor.

Needs some joined up thinking from the landowners, builders, Network Rail, Calderdale Council, Northern Rail and Westminster.

Unfortunately Calderdale Council couldn't find their arse with an atlas, Northern aren't interested this side of a franchise re-write and the local MP is a Tory road-building fanatic.

 

[Sox]

No freight has originated in East Lancashire for over a year now since Gilbrath's in Blackburn ceased sending freight by rail....snip

Interesting response Darren, I wonder if Gilbraith's have finished with rail access for good (I see they still big up their rail access facility on their website)?

http://www.gilbraithts.co.uk/warehousing/

I remember at school watching the rail head/coaling operation at Galligreaves (there is still quite a lot a track in situ but badly overgrown).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Needs some joined up thinking from the landowners, builders, Network Rail, Calderdale Council, Northern Rail and Westminster. Unfortunately Calderdale Council couldn't find their arse with an atlas, Northern aren't interested this side of a franchise re-write and the local MP is a Tory road-building fanatic.

Perfectly stated!!

 

[muddythefish]

Interesting response Darren, I wonder if Gilbraith's have finished with rail access for good (I see they still big up their rail access facility on their website)?

http://www.gilbraithts.co.uk/warehousing/

.

I'd be interested to know this too. It will be very sad if Galbraiths have given up on rail - they were one of the very few firms in the country who still used wagonload freight. The Blackburn area used to be so busy with freight when I was growing up.

By the way, the Galbraiths good shed at Blackburn is ex-Lancashire and Yorkshire and is more than 150 years old I believe.

 

[Darren R]

I don't know what the exact position is regarding Gilbraith's. My source was a photograph caption in Railway Herald some time last year (can't remember when though), which stated that the train in the picture was the last freight working into Gilbraith's sidings, but gave no further details as to why. Workings to and from Gilbraith's had been few-and-far between for some time prior to that though. They are still advertising the rail connection on their website, so presumably if any further demand was forthcoming a new agreement would be reached with Network Rail. The connections at both ends are still very much intact - in fact at the Darwen end the track and signalling were only renewed in the last couple of years.

 

[Geeves]

Emergency engineering works planned for this weekend on the curve, where hopefully Network Rail can get things working!

Bus replacements and what not on the Calder Valley again, joy.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

Emergency engineering works planned for this weekend on the curve, where hopefully Network Rail can get things working!

Err, no they haven't.

A signalling problem caused by over-running engineering work near Todmorden means that the following changes will apply until further notice:
Services between Manchester Victoria and Leeds will be delayed by up to 20 minutes
Services between Manchester Victoria and Todmorden will terminate and start back from Rochdale


http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/77248.aspx

 

[M60lad]

What's actually causing the problem with the signalling between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, obviously its something to do with the Todmorden Curve itself although I could be wrong, indecently looking on Northern's website their expecting this to continue for most of the day looking at the train updates (43 of them at the moment) most of them to do with the signalling problems with Todmorden trains terminating at Rochdale and Leeds trains running upto 20 late and calling at Stations the Todmorden services would have done

 

[spongsdad]

What's actually causing the problem with the signalling between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, obviously its something to do with the Todmorden Curve itself although I could be wrong, indecently looking on Northern's website their expecting this to continue for most of the day looking at the train updates (43 of them at the moment) most of them to do with the signalling problems with Todmorden trains terminating at Rochdale and Leeds trains running upto 20 late and calling at Stations the Todmorden services would have done

I do hope you were incidentally rather than indecently looking at Northern's website

The whole saga of the Todmorden curve reinstatement is beginning to look like one long tale of incompetence. The delays, cancellations and bus substitutions seem to have been endless. I travel by rail only occasionally and then solely for pleasure (Pleasure? I can't believe I've just written that)) but I feel genuinely sorry for those people for whom rail travel is a necessity.

 

[chrissawer]

What's actually causing the problem with the signalling between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, obviously its something to do with the Todmorden Curve itself although I could be wrong, indecently looking on Northern's website their expecting this to continue for most of the day looking at the train updates (43 of them at the moment) most of them to do with the signalling problems with Todmorden trains terminating at Rochdale and Leeds trains running upto 20 late and calling at Stations the Todmorden services would have done

I have just been through on the Calder Vale line towards Manchester. The barrier has been taken off the curve and the new signals appear to be operational, although there was a worker sitting at the signal by the curve itself, presumably watching everything go through.

We stopped at every signal for 30 seconds or so, so no major delays. The additional stops between Todmorden and Rochdale have added about 10 minutes to the journey.

 

[M60lad]

The latest news about the signalling problems near Todmorden is that disruption is likely to last now until 29 May according to National Rail, guessing there's going to be some disgruntled workers in the morning getting to Todmorden only to find out that only half the services are actually going to be running and those that are running are going to take longer to get to their destinations

 

[Moonshot]

I can put you all straight ....having been in the thick of this today. The new signalling has not been commissioned owing to a cable fault. There are 3 nights of planned possessions which will hopefully clear the issue by Thursday. Temporary block working is in place.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If I may be so bold as to use a musical comparison, the Todmorden Chord appears to be sounding a most discordant note at the present time...

 

[Whistler40145]

Very funny Paul, I'd relate it more to Faulty Towers!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[CalderRail]

Looking at Realtimetrains, none of tomorrow mornings Leeds-bound services from HBD are showing a platform. This makes me wonder if they are going to terminate and reverse at HBD again.

 

[strowger]

Deleted

 

[ianhr]

The Tod curve must be one of the simpler bits of infrastructure investment in the current plans and I hope they clean up their act before more complex schemes are commissioned e.g. Roby-Huyton quadrupling, Dore curve re-doubling, and Ordsall chord + platforms 15 & 16 at Man Picc!

 

[Moonshot]

The Tod curve must be one of the simpler bits of infrastructure investment in the current plans and I hope they clean up their act before more complex schemes are commissioned e.g. Roby-Huyton quadrupling, Dore curve re-doubling, and Ordsall chord + platforms 15 & 16 at Man Picc!

As always with projects ( in any industry ) there is usually a snagging list at the end.

As u mentioned, this is a simple piece of additional infrastructure less than 500 metres long...and yet here we have some 84 pages of comments on it. The mind boggles....