TOCs owning trains

[tbtc]

What trains are actually owned by TOCs? (or open access operators)

As far as I'm aware, the Grand Central HSTs and a few FGW HSTs are all owned (rather than leased), but are there any more? And how did these come onto the market?

I'd be interested in how long a TOC would need to own a train before the front end charge was cheaper than the regular leasing fees...

 

[starrymarkb]

SWT own their Class 483's - purchased for £1 each IIRC

 

[Dreadnought]

SWT own their Class 483's - purchased for £1 each IIRC

SWT also own the 2 421s used on the Lymington service.

According to my P5 books the following TOCs also own units.

* Southern - 377513 - 377523
* BAA - 332 and 360/2 units
* Chiltern - 55020 (bubble)
* Arriva Train Wales - 55032 (bubble)

When it comes to locos there are numerous ones that are owned by TOCs / FOCs.

 

[tbtc]

Thanks.

Presumably the Bubble cars werewithdrawn and therefore not owned by Porterbrook etc - what about the others - were they bought new by the TOCs?

 

[thelem]

Southern - 377513 - 377523

Really? Why? And if this is the case, why not 1-12 too?

 

[Dreadnought]

Really? Why? And if this is the case, why not 1-12 too?

377501 - 377512 are to replace the additional 12 319s that were transferred to FCC as part of the Brighton Main Line RUS. The next 11 were an add on order.

 

[jopsuk]

GC don't own their HSTs. There's a micro-ROSCO that was set up by the same people that set up by GC, I think with all the same directors, that officially owns them. presumably, more tax efficiant and means that in the unlikely event that the TOC side gets into finacial trouble the stock isn't an asset that can be sold to pay off debts.

 

[Royston Vasey]

GC don't own their HSTs. There's a micro-ROSCO that was set up by the same people that set up by GC, I think with all the same directors, that officially owns them. presumably, more tax efficiant and means that in the unlikely event that the TOC side gets into finacial trouble the stock isn't an asset that can be sold to pay off debts.

Semantics, surely? To all intents and purposes they are theirs, the holding company (Sula TOC Ltd, IIRC) owns both Grand Central Railway Company Ltd and Sovereign Trains Ltd, both of which are registered to the same address in Bristol.

The result is the same - those trains would not be available to other operators without being first acquired by that operator or another ROSCO.

 

[poshbakerloo]

Do Virgin own the 390s?

 

[Failed Unit]

Do Virgin own the 390s?

No, I am sure they are Angel trains owned. It was alway something that was picked up when virgin stated we have invested millions in new rolling stock - no you haven't the rosco did - you just least it!

 

[Royston Vasey]

Wikipedia claims that W&S's Mk IIIs (though not DVTs) are owned by the company. Chiltern (allegedly) have the ex-IE Mk IIIs too, are they owned by Chiltern/DB or a leasing company?

 

[RPM]

Wikipedia claims that W&S's Mk IIIs (though not DVTs) are owned by the company. Chiltern (allegedly) have the ex-IE Mk IIIs too, are they owned by Chiltern/DB or a leasing company?

As far as I know the W&S and Chiltern Mk IIIs are owned by DB Regio UK, the parent company of both operators.

 

[seventh-heaven]

As far as I know the W&S and Chiltern Mk IIIs are owned by DB Regio UK, the parent company of both operators.

As are the DVT's

 

[transportphoto]

Heathrow Express, which acording to a book I have BAA owns their class 332 trains.

Correct if wrong - I say this because where the book usually says:
eg (along the lines)
'Owner Angel Trains'

it says:
BAA

and dosent BAA opperate Hex Express???


Book details

Traction Recognitition
ISBN 9780711032774
Colin J Marsden
RRP 16.99GBP

 

[Dolive22]

Technically a wholly-owned subsidiary, but basically yes, BAA runs the Heathrow Express.

 

[Geezertronic]

No, I am sure they are Angel trains owned. It was alway something that was picked up when virgin stated we have invested millions in new rolling stock - no you haven't the rosco did - you just least it!

Correct - http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/fleet/detail.aspx?ID=5

Although their website still shows 53 units (which includes the set written off in the Grayrigg accident).

 

[150219]

Presumably the Bubble cars were withdrawn and therefore not owned by Porterbrook etc

55020 was owned by Network Rail and 55032 had been preserved, before being taken back into passenger service.