TOC's operating out of London terminals

[Clip]

Anyone fancy putting them all in order?

Approximate groups/order

Few:

Scotrail, Grand Central, Hull Trains, London Overground, East Coast, East Midlands Trains, London Midland, c2c

Average

Virgin, Chiltern, First Capital Connect, First Great Western

A lot

Greater Anglia, Southern, Southeastern, South West Trains

Out of interest how did you set the bench mark for few/average/many? C2C has tons going in and out of Fenchurch st - all day - its the only place they go to!!

 

[tractakid]

Out of interest how did you set the bench mark for few/average/many? C2C has tons going in and out of Fenchurch st - all day - its the only place they go to!!

Loosely, a few = less than 10tph, average= less than 20tph. I didn't check everything and might be completely wrong on a couple of them.

 

[Eagle]

You're missing Heathrow Express in that list. (And Heathrow Connect if you consider that a separate TOC rather than a joint FGW-HX service.)

Services from Wales and the Marches to Waterloo survived into the ATW era. I have a December 2003 London and the South East map that confirms this.

 

[tractakid]

I posted in a previous post I was excluding airport services.

 

[TrainBoy98]

You can't leave Marylebone alone because you have to merge Chiltern with FGW and HX (as all three serve Paddington). Same goes for the Southeastern stations.


(What the hell are we even discussing, I don't know any more.)

HX with Crossrail, and stop Chiltern from Paddington. Or could 'one offs' not be allowed?

 

[D365]

I posted in a previous post I was excluding airport services.

You've still made numerous mistakes - it doesn't seem like you researched your post. For a start, it should be based on peak frequency - although for the Caledonian Sleeper the service peak (one train) will be at an odd time.

*At least keep it consistent!

HX with Crossrail, and stop Chiltern from Paddington. Or could 'one offs' not be allowed?

Don't see why there'd be any problem with 'secondary' TOCs under the wings. With HC being folded into Crossrail (amongst other suburban services - as with Thameslink, normally using the separate low-level stations), that would leave Chiltern (1tpd at most) and HX (unless also 'Crossrailed') as secondary TOCs. As another example at Euston, you could kick Watford/LO onto Primrose Hill, and merge the WCML sections of LM into WC, but would there be any point [in the latter]?

I don't see why there has to be one TOC per terminus. Where high speed lines use or will use the same stations as National Rail lines (St Pancras, Euston and potentially others), of course it wouldn't make sense to merge the operators, even in a nationalised railway. Operation is distinct and separate. I also don't see how OAOs and these 'secondary' operators would get in the way of the 'primary' TOC 'running' the station.

Basically, I just can't quite understand how doing all this would benefit the railway or 'customer' in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Muzer]

I posted in a previous post I was excluding airport services.

Ah, so Gatwick Express wouldn't need merging into Southern, then.

Oh, wait

 

[tractakid]

You've still made numerous mistakes - it doesn't seem like you researched your post. For a start, it should be based on peak frequency - although for the Caledonian Sleeper the service peak (one train) will be at an odd time.

I was making estimates. And I used off peak frequencies to make some of them. If you can do better, feel free!