TOCs, Franchises and Open Access Operators

[barty]

I'm trying to compile a timeline of what's happened to the various TOCs since privatisation, to include

- awarding of franchises and unsuccessful bidders
- changes of ownership of the TOCs
- changes and combinations of franchises
- open access operators

Wikipedia has been a good place to start, but there are many gaps in my info.

Anybody have any ideas on where to look?

 

[Bayum]

The BBC News website has always been good to me for things like that

 

[bluenoxid]

Might be better to ask questions on here. What are your gaps?

 

[barty]

It's a work in progress......as in its progressing as we speak! So I'll do a bit more research myself before begging for gaps.

But the info I'm finding hardest to come by are the unsuccessful bidders.....as they say, history is written by the victors!!!!

Also the specific dates of franchises starting are sometimes hard to find, sources quote a month and year, but rarely a date.

But thanks for your suggestions so far, and I'll keep everyone updated as to how it's going.

 

[Mojo]

I am sure that many of us may have local knowledge if you have a list of exactly what franchises you are missing information on.

The DfT website has an archive of the now defunct Strategic Rail Authority's press releases. You will find many press releases on here about franchise awards and bidders (eg: http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/releases/sra/2001/20051/ecmlreplacementfranchise).

 

[barty]

Thanks for that Mojo..

I've found something on the DfT website that says that details of unsuccessful bidders are not released because of commercial confidentiality....so this could be interesting!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
oh and I can't read your PM till I've posted 5 messages......

 

[BJMorley]

www.wikipedia.org??
That should tell you, also Platform 5 BR Stock Books have all the details about franchises, trading names, ending dates, It doesn't say anything about FOCs though
Brandon

 

[barty]

good stuff, cheers

Wikipedia has been the biggest source for me so far

 

[Mojo]

Thanks for that Mojo..

I've found something on the DfT website that says that details of unsuccessful bidders are not released because of commercial confidentiality....so this could be interesting!!!

It could be that details of their bids are not revealed, other than what the companies choose to publish themselves as all preselected bidders (ie: when the DfT draws up a number of bids it wishes to carry on with further) are publically annouced.

 

[P156KWJ]

good stuff, cheers

Wikipedia has been the biggest source for me so far

not complaining, but don't use wiki for everything, for the usual reasons...

 

[barty]

yea that's true, probably facts and figures about the unsuccessful bids have to be kept secret.

 

[BJMorley]

What so everyone bids high lol!!

 

[barty]

Yeah, probably, and then when they have to go from receiving a Government subsidy to paying the Goverment a premium, they run into trouble.....don't they GNER??? Or was it Virgin???

Does anyone know when Govia bought Thames Trains?

 

[Bayum]

GNER ran into trouble when they couldn't pay...

24/10/2000 is a date given by BBC News... Not sure if thats right though, as it's obviously a headline saying when the franchise was taken over...

 

[barty]

.....or when North Western Trains (formerly North West Regional Railways) were completely bought out by First Group? (North Western Trains were jointly owned by First and the former NWRR management)

 

[Mojo]

.....or when North Western Trains (formerly North West Regional Railways) were completely bought out by First Group? (North Western Trains were jointly owned by First and the former NWRR management)

"The North Western Trains franchise was awarded to Great Western Holdings Limited (GWHL) on 5 February 1997 for a period of seven years and one month. The Franchising Director gave his approval to the change of control of GWHL to FirstGroup plc on 30 March 1998."

 

[bluenoxid]

Great Western Trains were included in the same deal.

I believe it is sometime in 98

Before 17th November

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_company_file/216031.stm

 

[barty]

I'll have this done in a week....

thanks guys

Well hopefully I'll have it done in a week, since I start a new job in the CIS control room of a certain train operator a week tomorrow.....medical permitting

Next question - when in 2003 did Laing Rail takeover M40 Trains, the owner of the Chiltern franchise?

 

[Mojo]

Next question - when in 2003 did Laing Rail takeover M40 Trains, the owner of the Chiltern franchise?

M40 trains were a subsidary of Laing for quite a while, but I don't know when exactly it was under their control. I have it here that on 9 March 1999 John Laing Group owned 84% of the shares.

Edit: If you're sure that it was some time in 2003, I've just found a press release from 21 Feb 2003 on which the 'Notes to Editors' claims that all shares are owned by "Laing Investments Ltd through Laing Rail Ltd" so it was either in Jan or Feb.

 

[lester]

I find Companies House really useful for some serious digging. It takes a bit of getting used to and much has to be paid for. Sometimes the hardest bit is knowing where to start.
Tocs and franchises etc etc is a really intriguing area to research---hours of fun. The feeling of finding a nugget of juicy info months before it even hits the media----immeasurable.