TOCs don't have posters warning passengers to check their Railcards?

[Joe Paxton]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #3 were originally in this thread.

Just thinking about it, I'm a bit surprised that TOCs don't have posters with the messages of 'Don't travel on a Railcard-discounted ticket without having your Railcard on you' and also 'Have you checked that your Railcard is still valid (in date)?'.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just thinking about it, I'm a bit surprised that TOCs don't have posters with the messages of 'Don't travel on a Railcard-discounted ticket without having your Railcard on you' and also 'Have you checked that your Railcard is still valid (in date)?'.

On my local TOC (SWR) you have to accept a splash screen on the TVM confirming that you have the valid railcard with you. No idea if (or how) they would ever use this against someone, but in principle it would be possible to see from the ticket issue code that it came from an SWR TVM, and be assumed the warning had been acknowledged.

At a ticket office they will always ask to see the railcard as a matter of course.

 

[Llanigraham]

At a ticket office they will always ask to see the railcard as a matter of course.

The last 4 tickets I have bought, the ticket office have not asked to view my Disabled Rail Card.

 

[ffm]

Perhaps cars should display a note saying 'is your driving licence in date'?

 

[westv]

Perhaps cars should display a note saying 'is your driving licence in date'?

Indeed do we really want to add to the hectoring messages?

 

[185143]

Absolutely not. TOCs patronise passengers with enough crap as it is...

Such as announcements about reporting unattended luggage. Since the IRA bombings, at the latest, I find it difficult to believe that people wouldn't report something unattended... (or, alternatively, steal it!)

I've been a railcard holder for over 2 years now-and I can count the amount of times I've forgotten it on one hand with no fingers! Some advice I would give (particularly to 16-25 railcard holders who cannot live without the things-myself included)-keep the railcard with your phone. I'd never leave home without my phone-so subsequently I've never left home without my railcard!

(Admittedly, I've left trains, planes and buses without other things-but I've never managed to lose my phone. Yet...)

 

[Clip]

On my local TOC (SWR) you have to accept a splash screen on the TVM confirming that you have the valid railcard with you. No idea if (or how) they would ever use this against someone, but in principle it would be possible to see from the ticket issue code that it came from an SWR TVM, and be assumed the warning had been acknowledged.

At a ticket office they will always ask to see the railcard as a matter of course.

You don' need to show a railcard when purchasing a railcard discouted ticket only to have one and show it when travelling

 

[swt_passenger]

You don' need to show a railcard when purchasing a railcard discouted ticket only to have one and show it when travelling

I agree, but the starting position at all my local stations is to ask to see it, some even have notices up. I don't know what they do after that.

 

[Clip]

Well theyre in the wrong but i guess they may see it as safeguarding their farebox - you should let them know next time and see what they say

 

[Wallsendmag]

You don' need to show a railcard when purchasing a railcard discouted ticket only to have one and show it when travelling

Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard. This does not apply if there was no ticket office at the station at which you began your journey or if the ticket office was closed and there was no ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets.

 

[Clip]

Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard. This does not apply if there was no ticket office at the station at which you began your journey or if the ticket office was closed and there was no ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets.

Is that new then as cant remember ever seeing it and is pretty useless when you can buy them online or at a TVM without showing your railcard whatsoever

 

[Clip]

ETA - I was thinking about purchasing in advance when i was typing so apologies there

 

[Llanigraham]

Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard. This does not apply if there was no ticket office at the station at which you began your journey or if the ticket office was closed and there was no ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets.

And I will repeat, the last 4 tickets I have purchased from a ticket office they have NOT asked to see my Disabled Rail Card.

 

[185143]

Is that new then as cant remember ever seeing it and is pretty useless when you can buy them online or at a TVM without showing your railcard whatsoever

Nope. I remember once, at least 5 years ago, buying tickets whilst my Dad had gone to park the car. He never gave me the railcard-the station staff knew us, and had seen our railcard many times before, so sold the tickets but asked to see it before we got on the train.

Even now when I have a railcard of my own, I still have to produce it to be sold a railcard fare-even though the staff know I have one. And that's how it should be!

 

[RJ]

Is that new then as cant remember ever seeing it and is pretty useless when you can buy them online or at a TVM without showing your railcard whatsoever

Nope, definitely not a new thing. When I tried to buy 9 months worth of Sheffield flyers in one go, Virgin at Euston refused to do it on the basis that I didn't have a 16-25 railcard on me. This was in May 2014 and the first ticket was dated for September 2014. Fair play to them as the leaflet and T&Cs did say this at the time - I did check. I went home, picked up my railcard and got another station to do it.

Also don't assume that everyone will find an alternative way to buy. Some people do, but I have rejected the sale of discounted tickets to people who don't have their railcards on them - whilst there are TVMs on the station, they invariably just buy the full priced tickets from me.

 

[exile]

Nope, definitely not a new thing. When I tried to buy 9 months worth of Sheffield flyers in one go, Virgin at Euston refused to do it on the basis that I didn't have a 16-25 railcard on me. This was in May 2014 and the first ticket was dated for September 2014. Fair play to them as the leaflet and T&Cs did say this at the time - I did check. I went home, picked up my railcard and got another station to do it.

Also don't assume that everyone will find an alternative way to buy. Some people do, but I have rejected the sale of discounted tickets to people who don't have their railcards on them - whilst there are TVMs on the station, they invariably just buy the full priced tickets from me.

But as pointed out, with current technology you're not asked to present a railcard when buying online. So why do you have to do it at a ticket office?

 

[Wallsendmag]

But as pointed out, with current technology you're not asked to present a railcard when buying online. So why do you have to do it at a ticket office?

There was talk a while back of a central Railcard database that TIS would check bit its all gone quiet on that. So when it’s possible to check it’s checked.

 

[island]

I expect any such implementation would drive lots of wibble from this forum about privacy and data protection.

 

[alxndr]

If I'm alone and buying more than one ticket they tend to be satisfied with just the one railcard. How do they know my partner has one if she's not there? Or for that matter, that I am indeed going to be using any ticket I buy and show a railcard for?

It just all strikes me as a bit arbitrary.

 

[sarahj]

You don' need to show a railcard when purchasing a railcard discouted ticket only to have one and show it when travelling

Does this mean when I sell a railcard discounted ticket on board a train, or perhaps before or after boarding (Say at the gates at Brighton), I cannot ask to see the railcard?
So the conversation will go like this:
Punter: Can I have a return to Falmer, with a young person discount
Me: Yes, that will be £2.85.
Punter : Here is my debit card.
Sale goes through, ticket printed, handed to punter.
Me: Right, now I'm checking your ticket, I need to see your railcard
Punter: oh, I've left it at home
Me: Right, then you have to pay the extra

Aghhhhhhh.

 

[RJ]

But as pointed out, with current technology you're not asked to present a railcard when buying online. So why do you have to do it at a ticket office?

People that buy online confirm that they have read and agree to the Conditions of Travel and T&Cs - so they have already stated they are well aware of the need to carry evidence of any discount entitlement. Some, if not all TVMs remind people they need to carry the railcard for the discount to be valid.

At a ticket office some people will pay an appropriate fare once it is established they don't have a railcard with them - or it's out of date, which is quite common. Like on here, some people do have a problem with this rule being enforced and their legal options are paying up, getting someone else to pay for them or not travelling. I'm with the railways on this one, there should be a requirement to show the railcard.

 

[talltim]

Surely you only need the railcard to be valid when you travel, not when buying the ticket? So then you could buy the ticket before you have the railcard

 

[Wallsendmag]

And I will repeat, the last 4 tickets I have purchased from a ticket office they have NOT asked to see my Disabled Rail Card.

Just because something has happened doesn’t mean it’s been done correctly. The policy at the TOC I work for is not to ask for the Railcard when selling a ticket except on the day of travel. Doesn’t mean every TOC has the same policy.

 

[Intermodal]

On my local TOC (SWR) you have to accept a splash screen on the TVM confirming that you have the valid railcard with you. No idea if (or how) they would ever use this against someone, but in principle it would be possible to see from the ticket issue code that it came from an SWR TVM, and be assumed the warning had been acknowledged.

At a ticket office they will always ask to see the railcard as a matter of course.

It makes zero difference whatsoever if they acknowledged or even read a warning. The ticket is invalid without the railcard. I think anyone in the public who claims to not understand this is attempting to evade fares or evade a higher fare - all literature provided with railcard purchase, online or at a station, make the rules very clear.

 

[swt_passenger]

It makes zero difference whatsoever if they acknowledged or even read a warning. The ticket is invalid without the railcard. I think anyone in the public who claims to not understand this is attempting to evade fares or evade a higher fare - all literature provided with railcard purchase, online or at a station, make the rules very clear.

I didn’t suggest it did make a difference to the passenger’s responsibilities, but the point of purchase is surely a good time to remind them to check they have their railcard? That’s all that is happening.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I didn’t suggest it did make a difference to the passenger’s responsibilities, but the point of purchase is surely a good time to remind them to check they have their railcard? That’s all that is happening.

Seems an eminently sensible moment to do so to me.

 

[Intermodal]

I didn’t suggest it did make a difference to the passenger’s responsibilities, but the point of purchase is surely a good time to remind them to check they have their railcard? That’s all that is happening.

I agree. Sorry, I was making assumptions based on the fact you said it could be potentially verified that they acknowledged the warning, implying that the verification would be used when making decisions regarding actions to take if they customer did not have their railcard when asked to present it.

 

[LowLevel]

I must confess that if I am pushed for time to complete an onboard ticket check then if I see tickets purchased that day at a booking office I'm less likely to ask to see the railcard. Ditto if it's been sold from a portable machine (except in Northern areas where some of their contractors make an absolute pigs ear out of the simplest sales). I thus concentrate on more thoroughly checking vending machine and online purchased tickets which are the more likely to be irregular.

My methodology has been somewhat frustrated of late though by the fact that Virgin West Coast have installed a number of poxy new machines that print the same type of ticket as a standard STAR booking office with a paper receipt. Consequently it's less easy to tell at a glance where the ticket was purchased. I would mind less if it wasn't for the fact they're brand new and print to the old format and not the new one.