TOC changing hands.

[plastictaffy]

Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, exactly what happens when a franchisee loses the franchise. Let's say your current employer was taken over by Directly Operated Railways, which is government run, as we all know. What would change for us overnight? Would any of the staff be at risk?

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, exactly what happens when a franchisee loses the franchise. Let's say your current employer was taken over by Directly Operated Railways, which is government run, as we all know. What would change for us overnight? Would any of the staff be at risk?

Well hopefully not a 1% pay rise next year!

 

[craigybagel]

This explains it pretty well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Undertakings_(Protection_of_Employment)_Regulations_2006

Also bearing in mind how much of the management/revenue staff at your own TOC have been made redundant of late, and how your own role seems pretty safe in the short term at least, I'd say you might be better off under new management!

 

[Domeyhead]

Well hopefully not a 1% pay rise next year!

In the private sector you can go a decade with no pay rise so a lot of workers would think they'd won the pools if they got a 1% rise!

 

[Murph]

Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, exactly what happens when a franchisee loses the franchise. Let's say your current employer was taken over by Directly Operated Railways, which is government run, as we all know. What would change for us overnight? Would any of the staff be at risk?

It's always going to be a case by case thing, I believe, so depends just how badly the franchisee was managing the franchise prior to the change. DOR will generally want to preserve the service as a whole, and they are going to need the existing trained staff to do that. If the staffing levels were reasonable, there shouldn't be a huge impact on staff, just another TUPE transfer. Unions will obviously try to protect their members as best as possible. DOR will be looking to see if there's any fat to trim, or thoroughly dysfunctional parts of the operation that must be fixed.

If the franchisee had activities beyond those required to operate the franchise, the extra staff required for those activities could be at risk. Similarly, if they were heavily overstaffed, some trimming might be expected. Senior management could well be in for a reshuffle, or pushed out, on a case by case basis, if they individually or collectively were seen to be contributing to or overseeing the failure.

 

[plastictaffy]

Also bearing in mind how much of the management/revenue staff at your own TOC have been made redundant of late, and how your own role seems pretty safe in the short term at least, I'd say you might be better off under new management!

That's kinda what I was thinking. Here's hoping. Suck it and see then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In a nutshell, I don't have too much to worry about, by the looks of it. Apart from the new uniform that probably won't fit, and possibly a new, horrid train livery? I think if I was in a management role, not immediately concerned with running trains, I'd be quite concerned. The TOC I'm referring to is very top-heavy. I'm assuming that DOR would take stock of this and possibly chop heads there.

 

[craigybagel]

You might also feel better talking to your colleagues who've already been there and done that? I know at my own depot we're on our third TOC since privitisation, with another change due in 3 years. Plenty of talk over whether things were better or worse under the old management, but not too many scars from changes at our grade.

Of course, you could always do what is probably the safest option for everyone at our grade, and try and get yourself a drivers key

 

[RPI]

would I be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 50 if I were thinking that this scenario could be a reality?

 

[DarloRich]

Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, exactly what happens when a franchisee loses the franchise. Let's say your current employer was taken over by Directly Operated Railways, which is government run, as we all know. What would change for us overnight? Would any of the staff be at risk?

The vast majority of staff would TUPE over to the new operator with little day to day change, at least initially. Those at risk are usually the more senior management grades as, much like a new football manager, the new CEO will want his own men in.

 

[Tetchytyke]

TUPE will protect your core terms and conditions- your hours of work, rates of pay, etc- for a period of time, and this period of time can depend on what the new employer wants to change, and why.

It doesn't protect you from redundancy, though, but the rules around redundancy are more strict when there's a TUPE transfer. They can't just cut pay or cut jobs because of the transfer- i.e. they can't asset-strip the staff out- but if there's a legitimate business case they can make changes.

ACAS' guide is pretty good on this: http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/d/r/Handling-TUPE-Transfers-The-Acas-Guide.pdf

In your case I'd be surprised if redundancy was an immediate concern- whichever TOC has the contract will struggle to run a service without any guards- but TUPE doesn't necessarily make your job safe.

 

[Greenback]

Having gone through TUPE myself, though not on the railway, I must agree with the above assessment.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Having been made redundant in one job and TUPE'd in another, I can well understand your concerns. And I haven't had a pay rise (or cost of living rise) for 5 years. Doing a job which nationally, is under constant threat and living with that anxiety daily is something I'm really trying to stay upbeat about. Sadly, over a certain age, employment prospects are very slim indeed.

Yes, TUPE will protect your terms and conditions and core pay, but not indefinately. Any company is at liberty to change terms and conditions but there is usually grandfather rights for existing employees - only the new employees come under the new terms and conditions. I'm only talking from personal experience

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes TUPE will allow terms and conditions to change after a period of time, however, to be fair, if you're in one of the big unions, you are probably going to be OK.

Although they have colourful leaders, the people who do the negotiation are very good at getting the best deal for their members, and 99.99% of the time, an amicable settlement is reached. Remember the last thing a TOC's management wants is their staff to go out on strike. They're there to make sure that services run smoothly. So even if there are new terms and conditions, they won't be too onerous.

 

[Abpj17]

And legally, it's not that your employer is taken over. Another company provides the service, and staff are transferred, via TUPE, so that service can continue. The masses of working level staff are generally ok (drivers, etc. are still all needed); at least initially, it's the senior levels of management that are more at risk because the new company wants a different way of doing things (and some may not even be transferred).

 

[M7R]

TUPE basically freezes your t+c at the time you move over, Tupe does not have a time limit its last forever... HOWEVER there is nothing to stop the new company offering you new T+Cs but you don't have to accept them, you could chose to stay on your old contract, the down side being things like old contact = no pay raise, there is generally pros and cons of signing up to the new contacts,

We have just nearly had to go through this at work but in the end the joint venture didn't happen (Im not railways but I do work for the govenment)

 

[Elecman]

M7R your interpretation of Old Contract = No Payrise is in fact illegal

 

[ANorthernGuard]

All I have ever noticed is an improvement in Running to time and a new Uniform (well it did change from First North Western to Northern)