Timing Load and Schedules

[Legolash2o]

In the nightly feeds and TPS, each schedule has a timing load associated with a schedule i.e. 1600.

For freight schedules: Does anyone know if that is the weight of the full train (inc. loco and wagons) or just the trailing weight that the locomotive(s) is pulling, or something else entirely?

I hope someone can help, thank you in advance!

 

[hexagon789]

In the nightly feeds and TPS, each schedule has a timing load associated with a schedule i.e. 1600.

For freight schedules: Does anyone know if that is the weight of the full train (inc. loco and wagons) or just the trailing weight that the locomotive(s) is pulling, or something else entirely?

I hope someone can help, thank you in advance!

If it's the same as the Working Timetables, it'll be trailing weight only.

 

[Legolash2o]

If it's the same as the Working Timetables, it'll be trailing weight only.

I believe it is the same. If it's top and tail (loco at front and back), would it include the loco at the back weight as well?

 

[The Planner]

I believe it is the same. If it's top and tail (loco at front and back), would it include the loco at the back weight as well?

Not aware of that happening. There are some sporadic timing loads for 2 x 86 and 2 x 90 but they can be counted on the fingers of two hands. Freight is normally timed in 200 ton increments of even numbers (400, 600 etc...) with some outliers for Class 4 at 1235 tons and 1475. I will ignore the old TR timing loads as they used 260 ton increments.

 

[Legolash2o]

Thanks everyone!

 

[D7666]

Not aware of that happening. There are some sporadic timing loads for 2 x 86 and 2 x 90 but they can be counted on the fingers of two hands. Freight is normally timed in 200 ton increments of even numbers (400, 600 etc...) with some outliers for Class 4 at 1235 tons and 1475. I will ignore the old TR timing loads as they used 260 ton increments.

A question I had been meaning to ask - 1235 and 1475 t.

Those look so precise rather than the nice nearest 200 or 100 or even 50 t for most other loads. Would you know if those values have an exact calculation behind them that means they can't be 1200/1400 or 1400/1600 ?

My guess is there is a length limit that imposes these weights - i.e. the length of a class 4 container train is limited somewhere on it's route such that it would be 1200 (but not 1400) t in default tables but that extra 35 t of 1235 t allows 1 or 2 containers more ?

 

[The Planner]

A question I had been meaning to ask - 1235 and 1475 t.

Those look so precise rather than the nice nearest 200 or 100 or even 50 t for most other loads. Would you know if those values have an exact calculation behind them that means they can't be 1200/1400 or 1400/1600 ?

My guess is there is a length limit that imposes these weights - i.e. the length of a class 4 container train is limited somewhere on it's route such that it would be 1200 (but not 1400) t in default tables but that extra 35 t of 1235 t allows 1 or 2 containers more ?

No idea, they have been around for as long as I can remember, I will need to check but they may just be copies of the old class 47 timing load to a 66. Certainly heavier class 4 are timed at 1600 and 1800.

 

[zwk500]

I believe it is the same. If it's top and tail (loco at front and back), would it include the loco at the back weight as well?

Technically, if the loco on the back is dead then it factors into the trailing weight. If it's applying power then it can be factored out. However nearly all bids wouldn't specify that level of detail, they'd just ask for a timing load.

N.B. Trailing weights are also given for loco-hauled passenger trains, such as the Class 91 IC225 sets, e.g. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L77619/2022-11-01/detailed#allox_id=0 (It ran as an Azuma but at KGX you can see it's timed for a Class 91 + 420t at 125mph. Notably, IIRC the timing load for a 67 dragging the IC225 is/was Class 67 + 500t, indicating the Class 91 dead is factored in (they're 80 tonnes).

The amount of trains that run in top/tail formation is extremely low, the overwhelming majority being railtours (which often have to use less representative timing loads) and engineering trains (where they will use a standard timing load), so this problem doesn't generally arise in normal planning.

 

[D7666]

No idea, they have been around for as long as I can remember, I will need to check but they may just be copies of the old class 47 timing load to a 66. Certainly heavier class 4 are timed at 1600 and 1800.

Yes, suppose should have thought of legacy copy and paste. Often a good theory turns out to be the real reason.