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Timişoara to Budapest

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alex397

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Hi folks, I’m hoping the extensive knowledge of members here may help me make a decision.

I’m looking at visiting Timişoara in the Easter holidays. It looks like an interesting city with some good architecture. My main aim though is the see the 1960s German trams while they are still in operation. Arad is nearby too with their historical fleet, as well as the inter-urban tramway, which looks rather dilapidated. Romania seems to have modernised most tram fleets now, so I can’t imagine these older types will be around much longer.

Rather than just returning back to London, I’m looking at adding on a trip to Budapest. It appears there are 3 direct trains a day from Timişoara. I’d be more likely to travel on second one, the 07.21 IRN78 train. This is a sleeper from Bucharest, and according to vagonweb.cz, there are just two coaches which are not couchettes.
My question is, does anyone have experience of booking and using this train? It probably won’t be very scenic, but is it a pleasant journey (I realise that’s subjective!) and reliable? Secondly, I carry medication with me, could that be an issue at the border crossing? (I’ve never crossed a non-Schengen border by train before).

Apart from Budapest though, is there somewhere else that is worth travelling to from Timişoara, to then return to the UK that might be a better option?
 
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Segedunum

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The border checks on either side have now reduced to a cursory passport check with no stamping in/out. Your medication won't be an issue.

The journey from Arad to Budapest is pleasant enough. Cross-border traffic isn't huge either so its unlikely that the train will be rammed full. I've only done Timişoara-Arad on a sleeper train in the dark so unsure of scenery.
 

michael8

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Brasov to Bucharest by train is a fabulous journey with superb views of the Carpathian mountains :) Easy to do in daytime, comfortable smart trains (double decker - I think they were second-hand French ones!) This was in about 2018
 

LNW-GW Joint

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That part of Romania is part of the Banat plain and is very flat, and big on sunflower crops.
But there is some lovely scenery eastwards once you reach the Transylvanian hills or the Iron Gates on the Danube.
You might catch sight of ex-BR electric locos on freight around Szolnok.
The original Austro-Hungarian main line (StEG) from Budapest to Timișoara ran via Szeged and Kikinda (which is now in Serbia).
The current route avoids crossing Serbia.
 

nwales58

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Booking: Romania-Hungary trains you can book with CFR international online and get PDF tickets directly.

Medication: border checks were passport-only. I carry prescriptions for mine but have never been checked within EU.

Arad-Budapest is roughly every 2 hours. Despite Schengen, times are unchanged: 20 minutes at Curtici followed by an hour at Lököshaza for you to admire how things used to be done (plus the new over-the-top station at Lököshaza, thanks EU funding, and the mile out shunt to attach the domestic portion). If you want more time in Budapest try Flixbus from Timisoara (not Arad, the stop is miles out on a tram route with 2 services per *day*).

To see a different, 'real', Hungary, find your way to Szeged (few coaches per day but beware Flixbus at Arad, or slowly by train via Bekecsaba), nice older centre, urban tram routes and tram-train that you could pick up at Hodmezövasarhely (=something-field-market town) on your way in from Bekecsaba. Szeged-Budapest is hourly.

Scenery: anywhere other than the Puszta is more interesting! Although the slow wander will help understand a bit more about Hungary than people who have only seen Budapest.

Return to UK might be from Cluj-Napoca, Sibiu, Brasov ... depends on your days.

If sticking within Romania instead of Budapest, it's all very slow and often late. Bits of modern refurbished route, some work in progress and a lot of crap speed-restricted track with freight stuck in every loop and miles of locked axle damage.

Towards Bucharest via Drobeta-Turnu Severin takes you along the Danube gorge for 30 minutes then an unusual slow zigzag climb into the next valley. Of the routes towards Brasov, Sibiu is worth seeing (centre is medieval squares, outdoor buildings museum but the preserved tram line past it is derelict), beautiful climb up from Sebes class 60 or 62-hauled (can't remember which), or via Sighisoara (fortified town).

For trams, if you have not seen Budapest that's probably where you want. Otherwise Oradea to the north has a small system, Cluj-Napoca a single line (haven't been, don't know current fleet), Craiova has a single line (modern vehicles, Pesa?)
 

70014IronDuke

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Timisoara is a fascinating city - not sure how much they dolled it up when it became City of Culture in around 2017 - might have spoiled it a bit.

Historically, the different nationalities in Timisoara managed to get along, mostly. That made a difference.

The revolution in 89 was sparked by the protests to protect the ethnic Hungarian minister Laszlo Tokes (Turkesh - they say it like that) by all the nationalities in Timisoara. (Sadly, Tokes has become a ranting Hungarian nationalist since those halcyon days.)

If you are into modern history, make sure you go to the Museum of the 1989 Revolution - the only one in Romania. Originally founded by a group of volunteers with no state support whatsoever under a man named Traian Orban (a vet, no relation to that nice democratic leader in neighbouring Hungary). He, Traian, was shot twice in the legs, IIRC, in one of the December 89 protests in the city. Only saved his leg because he was taken to Austria by a volunteer team and they found the second bullet - which the Romanian doctors had missed. (Well, it was mayhem at the time, with bodies everywhere.)

If you are into football, you might want to visit the Phoenix Club Poli Timsioara. (I assume they still exist, you'd need to check.)

If you are into scenic rail journeys, you can forget Timisoara to Budapest. There is a reason the suicide rate is high on the Hungarian plain. Think travelling York - Darlington 10 times in succession at 70 mph.

Gyula (in Hungary) is an attractive city, but the main line avoids it. You'd have to go north of Arad to Salonta and catch the branch railbus across to Hungary to visit it. I think you'd have to pay an excess fare.
 

FinsburyPark

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If you want a scenic rail journey in Romania, try Bucaresți to Constanța. If you time your trains right, its also day trip-able as well.

Oh and Romania is in Schengen now. You only do your passport checks at the airport.
 

JB_B

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If you want a scenic rail journey in Romania, try Bucaresți to Constanța. ...
I guess that the oil fields and parts of the delta are interesting to look at but I wouldn't have described that section as scenic exactly - certainly not compared to Transylvania.
 

alex397

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The border checks on either side have now reduced to a cursory passport check with no stamping in/out. Your medication won't be an issue.

The journey from Arad to Budapest is pleasant enough. Cross-border traffic isn't huge either so its unlikely that the train will be rammed full. I've only done Timişoara-Arad on a sleeper train in the dark so unsure of scenery.
Thanks for your swift reply! That’s a relief to know regarding medication. A YouTube video of someone doing this journey must have been filmed before the changes.
Romania is in the Schengen area now.
I completely forgot this happened!
That part of Romania is part of the Banat plain and is very flat, and big on sunflower crops.
But there is some lovely scenery eastwards once you reach the Transylvanian hills or the Iron Gates on the Danube.
You might catch sight of ex-BR electric locos on freight around Szolnok.
The original Austro-Hungarian main line (StEG) from Budapest to Timișoara ran via Szeged and Kikinda (which is now in Serbia).
The current route avoids crossing Serbia.
Thanks for the description. I’d really like to see the Transylvanian hills, though this may have to happen on another trip.
interesting to know about the original Austro-Hungarian line - a look on OpenRailwayMap of the area is fascinating. And a look of images of the stations as seen on Google Maps shows the station buildings seemingly of that era, now a shadow of their former selves. The big station at Jimbolia being an example, seemingly having had EU funding, and with big lettering about being an EU Border Crossing Point - it looks like there are no trains to Serbia here, just a local train to Timisoara.
Booking: Romania-Hungary trains you can book with CFR international online and get PDF tickets directly.

Medication: border checks were passport-only. I carry prescriptions for mine but have never been checked within EU.

Arad-Budapest is roughly every 2 hours. Despite Schengen, times are unchanged: 20 minutes at Curtici followed by an hour at Lököshaza for you to admire how things used to be done (plus the new over-the-top station at Lököshaza, thanks EU funding, and the mile out shunt to attach the domestic portion). If you want more time in Budapest try Flixbus from Timisoara (not Arad, the stop is miles out on a tram route with 2 services per *day*).

To see a different, 'real', Hungary, find your way to Szeged (few coaches per day but beware Flixbus at Arad, or slowly by train via Bekecsaba), nice older centre, urban tram routes and tram-train that you could pick up at Hodmezövasarhely (=something-field-market town) on your way in from Bekecsaba. Szeged-Budapest is hourly.

Scenery: anywhere other than the Puszta is more interesting! Although the slow wander will help understand a bit more about Hungary than people who have only seen Budapest.

Return to UK might be from Cluj-Napoca, Sibiu, Brasov ... depends on your days.

If sticking within Romania instead of Budapest, it's all very slow and often late. Bits of modern refurbished route, some work in progress and a lot of crap speed-restricted track with freight stuck in every loop and miles of locked axle damage.

Towards Bucharest via Drobeta-Turnu Severin takes you along the Danube gorge for 30 minutes then an unusual slow zigzag climb into the next valley. Of the routes towards Brasov, Sibiu is worth seeing (centre is medieval squares, outdoor buildings museum but the preserved tram line past it is derelict), beautiful climb up from Sebes class 60 or 62-hauled (can't remember which), or via Sighisoara (fortified town).

For trams, if you have not seen Budapest that's probably where you want. Otherwise Oradea to the north has a small system, Cluj-Napoca a single line (haven't been, don't know current fleet), Craiova has a single line (modern vehicles, Pesa?)
Invaluable info, thanks very much. The timetable of the train to Budapest looks rather ridiculous, for the reasons you state. It spends a lot of time at a few other stations too. I’m sure it’s useful to absorb any delays though. it has rather put me off using this train to be honest.
interesting To hear about Szeged - a further look at this place shows it to certainly be of interest. Beautiful architecture, tram-train, ex-Berlin/Potsdam Tatras, and classic Škoda 15Tr trolleybuses. There is just one Flixbus a day from Timisoara. I’d have to spend at least a couple of nights there I think, which would extend my trip, which makes me think I should visit Szeged another time in combination with Budapest.
Timisoara is a fascinating city - not sure how much they dolled it up when it became City of Culture in around 2017 - might have spoiled it a bit.

Historically, the different nationalities in Timisoara managed to get along, mostly. That made a difference.

The revolution in 89 was sparked by the protests to protect the ethnic Hungarian minister Laszlo Tokes (Turkesh - they say it like that) by all the nationalities in Timisoara. (Sadly, Tokes has become a ranting Hungarian nationalist since those halcyon days.)

If you are into modern history, make sure you go to the Museum of the 1989 Revolution - the only one in Romania. Originally founded by a group of volunteers with no state support whatsoever under a man named Traian Orban (a vet, no relation to that nice democratic leader in neighbouring Hungary). He, Traian, was shot twice in the legs, IIRC, in one of the December 89 protests in the city. Only saved his leg because he was taken to Austria by a volunteer team and they found the second bullet - which the Romanian doctors had missed. (Well, it was mayhem at the time, with bodies everywhere.)

If you are into football, you might want to visit the Phoenix Club Poli Timsioara. (I assume they still exist, you'd need to check.)

If you are into scenic rail journeys, you can forget Timisoara to Budapest. There is a reason the suicide rate is high on the Hungarian plain. Think travelling York - Darlington 10 times in succession at 70 mph.

Gyula (in Hungary) is an attractive city, but the main line avoids it. You'd have to go north of Arad to Salonta and catch the branch railbus across to Hungary to visit it. I think you'd have to pay an excess fare.
Fascinating historical and cultural info, thanks! I’m very much into Cold War history so that museum would be of great interest. I believe Timisoara protests then led to the Bucharest ones.
You haven’t exactly sold the train journey to me there - I think I’d get rather restless with an 8 hour train journey with monotonous scenery and excessively long stops at stations!

I’m still rather indecisive, but this info on here will certainly help. I’m not sure it will involve the Timisoara-Budapest train which is what this thread was mainly for!

I’m thinking:
Timisoara - Szeged - Budapest
Timisoara - Cluj Napoca
Timisoara - Oradea, possibly extended to either Debrecen or Budapest.

With this last option, I had never heard of Oradea before planning this trip. Looks like some beautiful Art Nouveau buildings, ex-Berlin Tatra trams. There are direct flights to London too, from HiSky, a Moldovan airline.
Trains to Budapest are fairly quick here, though requiring a change in Hungary - it doesn’t spend an age at the border either.
 
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The exile

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With this last option, I had never heard of Oradea before planning this trip. Looks like some beautiful Art Nouveau buildings, ex-Berlin Tatra trams, trolleybuses. There are direct flights to London too, from a Romanian airline.
Trains to Budapest are fairly quick here too, though requiring a change in Hungary - it doesn’t spend an age at the border either.
Can definitely second that - well worth a visit.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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interesting to know about the original Austro-Hungarian line - a look on OpenRailwayMap of the area is fascinating. And a look of images of the stations as seen on Google Maps shows the station buildings seemingly of that era, now a shadow of their former selves. The big station at Jimbolia being an example, seemingly having had EU funding, and with big lettering about being an EU Border Crossing Point - it looks like there are no trains to Serbia here, just a local train to Timisoara.
The Timisoara-Jimbolia-Kikinda rail link is still there, for freight at least.
It's the Kikinda-Szeged section that has gone. This ran yards from the Romanian border in places.
The rail bridge over the Tisza at Szeged was never rebuilt after being blown up in WW2, which is probably now the killer to reinstatement.

The HU-RO route via Oradea is being electrified, so through trains to Cluj are diverted via Debrecen.
 

alex397

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The Timisoara-Jimbolia-Kikinda rail link is still there, for freight at least.
It's the Kikinda-Szeged section that has gone. This ran yards from the Romanian border in places.
The rail bridge over the Tisza at Szeged was never rebuilt after being blown up in WW2, which is probably now the killer to reinstatement.

The HU-RO route via Oradea is being electrified, so through trains to Cluj are diverted via Debrecen.
I was looking into that bridge, as there is a railway line that terminates on the other side of it at Újszeged, though the two trains a day have been suspended in 2023, seemingly permanently, replaced by a bus. Interesting stuff!

Thank you for your info about the HU-RO electrification. Would this be disruptive for my plans at all? It seems I’d still be able to travel by train from Oradea to Püspökladány where I can change to trains to Budapest or Debrecen.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


UPDATE:
I have narrowed it down to two different trips:

Timisoara - Oradea - Budapest
Timisoara - Szeged - Budapest

Szeged appeals because it has at least three different transport interests (tram-train, old ex-Czech trolleybuses and ex-Berlin/Potsdam Tatra trams) as well as looking like a beautiful city.
But to keep this trip more focussed on Romania, Oradea also appeals with some brilliant Art nouveau architecture and ex-Berlin Tatra trams. Decisions, decisions!

One thing that’s clear from all this research is that Hungarian trains seems significantly better than Romania. Trains are far more frequent for a start - some of the timings in Romania are very limited and often bizarre.
Once leaving Oradea and changing trains in Hungary at Püspökladány, there are often about 3 trains an hour on that mainline to Budapest. Also, Szeged to Budapest is hourly.
 
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70014IronDuke

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With this last option, I had never heard of Oradea before planning this trip. Looks like some beautiful Art Nouveau buildings, ex-Berlin Tatra trams. There are direct flights to London too, from HiSky, a Moldovan airline.
Trains to Budapest are fairly quick here, though requiring a change in Hungary - it doesn’t spend an age at the border either.
Oradea - Nagyvarad in Hungarian, Grosswardein in German - was a major cultural centre pre-1914, with RO, HU, German and Jewish populations. I suspect (but don't know) that on becoming part of Romania in 1922, it became peripheral to Bucharest and declined in relative importance. It was annexed back to Hungary as part of the Second Vienna Award (sponsored by an Austrian christened Adolf).

Under Hungarian rule, a few years later, the authorities felt obliged to relocate the Jewish population to southern Poland, where conditions were 'difficult'. Few returned, and the Hungarian speaking segment of the population was much reduced (the Jewish people were almost entirely Hungarian speaking).

I'm not sure how they managed it (given the miserable economy of Romania in the 1980s), but even under the Ceausescu regime Oradea was made to look attractive around the old city and wartime ghetto. (Forget the suburbs, of course, littered with ill-lit concrete housing blocks.)
 

Austriantrain

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Under Hungarian rule, a few years later, the authorities felt obliged to relocate the Jewish population to southern Poland, where conditions were 'difficult'.

@„obliged“: the Hungarians actually were (like us Austrians and unlike other people such as the Czechs) very keen on doing so, and ruthlessly efficient.
 

alex397

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Oradea - Nagyvarad in Hungarian, Grosswardein in German - was a major cultural centre pre-1914, with RO, HU, German and Jewish populations. I suspect (but don't know) that on becoming part of Romania in 1922, it became peripheral to Bucharest and declined in relative importance. It was annexed back to Hungary as part of the Second Vienna Award (sponsored by an Austrian christened Adolf).

Under Hungarian rule, a few years later, the authorities felt obliged to relocate the Jewish population to southern Poland, where conditions were 'difficult'. Few returned, and the Hungarian speaking segment of the population was much reduced (the Jewish people were almost entirely Hungarian speaking).

I'm not sure how they managed it (given the miserable economy of Romania in the 1980s), but even under the Ceausescu regime Oradea was made to look attractive around the old city and wartime ghetto. (Forget the suburbs, of course, littered with ill-lit concrete housing blocks.)
Thank you for this fascinating background info to Oradea. I often enjoy visiting cities with a varied history and multicultural population, so I think I’d enjoy it there.

I’ve booked the first part of the trip, to Timişoara but I’m still undecided about the next step. I’m considering visiting Oradea after Timişoara, where it is then relatively quick to get from Oradea to Szeged, with 2 changes. It helps that Hungarian trains are faster and more frequent. Then Budapest from there to fly home, probably spending 3 nights in Timisoara and 2 nights in all the other places. This could be a bit too much for me though, and may still just visit 3 places. I continue to be very indecisive!

I could avoid Oradea this time, and tag it on to a future Cluj-Napoca trip, as it is around 4 hours away by train through apparently lovely scenery.
 

dutchflyer

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Sorry to dampen the enthusiasm a little bit-but having through the years visited all those cities-prime interest for me being their tramway networks, I would not call that architecture that much special-its more a 13 in a dozen all-the-same-ness among them without much to have them stand apart from the others. From the realistic eye of a normal tourist, indeed HU, not just its trains, is better developed as RO. Timings in RO are indeed less, but set to their normal way of doing things and these timings often differ as I fairly often realise in this forum, from what you Brits seem much used to. And HU offers free transport for again anyone >65, for a while it was just EU-thus forfeiting this extra for the Brits when you choose to step out.
HInt: IF using tickets bought there&then or via web-do shorten as much as poss for INTernational, as these tend to cost way more (for the same nr of KMs) as purely domestic. What tickets to use and how to get them may in RO even form another special object of study.
 

alex397

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Sorry to dampen the enthusiasm a little bit-but having through the years visited all those cities-prime interest for me being their tramway networks, I would not call that architecture that much special-its more a 13 in a dozen all-the-same-ness among them without much to have them stand apart from the others. From the realistic eye of a normal tourist, indeed HU, not just its trains, is better developed as RO. Timings in RO are indeed less, but set to their normal way of doing things and these timings often differ as I fairly often realise in this forum, from what you Brits seem much used to. And HU offers free transport for again anyone >65, for a while it was just EU-thus forfeiting this extra for the Brits when you choose to step out.
HInt: IF using tickets bought there&then or via web-do shorten as much as poss for INTernational, as these tend to cost way more (for the same nr of KMs) as purely domestic. What tickets to use and how to get them may in RO even form another special object of study.
No need to apologise - I appreciate an honest opinion on these places.

My main aim for this particular trip is to see and travel on the public transport, anything else is secondary. A city doesn’t have to be ‘pretty’ to me, as much as I enjoy certain types of renowned architecture. I’m also a fan of brutalist / socialist architecture so I think I’ll find a lot of interest, as well as just experiencing a different culture, as well as the history (particularly Cold War era)

UPDATE: I’ve bitten the bullet and decided to book all four places. Timişoara - Oradea - Szeged - Budapest. No doubt I’ll be back here asking about the best way to buy tickets! In Hungary it seems easy enough, but not as easy in Romania.
 
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alex397

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A few days ago I booked the train from Oradea to Püspökladány on Sun 6 April. Probably no need to book it, but would rather just in case. (FYI, you still have to collect the ticket from the station, at least 30 mins before departure).
However, since checking the times today, the train has disappeared from both the CFR international planner and Google Maps. A huge 5 hour trip to get there is suggested instead by CFR.
Should I be concerned about this, or is it just a data issue?

I don’t think it’s engineering works as it’s disappeared for all days.
 

The exile

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A few days ago I booked the train from Oradea to Püspökladány on Sun 6 April. Probably no need to book it, but would rather just in case. (FYI, you still have to collect the ticket from the station, at least 30 mins before departure).
However, since checking the times today, the train has disappeared from both the CFR international planner and Google Maps. A huge 5 hour trip to get there is suggested instead by CFR.
Should I be concerned about this, or is it just a data issue?

I don’t think it’s engineering works as it’s disappeared for all days.
That line has been under electrification so may well be out “for all days”. (No certain knowledge about the current situation but I had to do Oradea - Hungary last year via Valea lui Mihai as the “direct line” was closed.
 

alex397

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That line has been under electrification so may well be out “for all days”. (No certain knowledge about the current situation but I had to do Oradea - Hungary last year via Valea lui Mihai as the “direct line” was closed.
Thanks for this. Was there no rail replacement facility set up instead of a massive diversion?

I’ve duplicated myself by setting up a new thread for this question as I didn’t think it would get much attention here. apologies mods!
 

The exile

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There may have been- I wouldn’t do an RRB if it could possibly be avoided and given the intermittent service anywhere on CFR it may have been more convenient anyway.
 
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