Timetable for last passenger service via Woodhead?

[Mcr Warrior]

Anyone able to provide a scan of the timetable for Manchester -> Sheffield Victoria services, before regular passenger services via Woodhead were withdrawn (in late 1969/early 1970 if I correctly recall?)

 

[steamybrian]

Can't help you with a timetable.
Closed precisely 45 years ago (Monday 5th January 1970).
I travelled on the last day Saturday 3rd January 1970 and I remember it was a bitterly cold freezing day with the Pennines covered in a light covering of snow.

 

[Andrewlong]

Would be useful to know frequency and compare with Hope Valley line

 

[Welshman]

Whilst not reflecting the last days of the Woodhead line, my 1962 timetable shows an hourly service from 8.45am-10.45pm from Sheffield Victoria, calling at Penistone, Dinting and Guide Bridge, and at x10 from Manchester Pic to Sheffield.

Journey time was approx. 55 minutes westbound and 1 hr eastbound.

There were also additional services to/from Hull, Harwich and Eastern Counties to Manchester Central[reverse] and Liverpool Central. These were steam or diesel-hauled to/from Guide Bridge, where the DC electric locos took over.

So, whilst running times were similar to now, the service was hourly rather than half-hourly, and there were no "local" trains as such - the intermediate stations such as Hadfield and Dunford Bridge being served only occasionally by extra stops in the hourly service.

Prior to its being run-down, the line carried many coal and coal empties to/from Wath Yard to Lancashire and vv, so as the line was only double track, I suppose there were not the paths for extra passenger trains.

 

[Bevan Price]

Final Woodhead Line timetable (LMR, 1969/1970).
Manchester Piccadilly departures: 01:17 (to Cleethorpes); 07:36; 08:25**; 08:55**; 11:10; 11:55; 13:10; 14:10; 14:37 (Parkeston Quay); 15:10, 16:10; 17:00; 18:10; 19:10; 21:10; 22:35(SO).
All called at Penistone; all except the northbound Parkeston service called at Guide Bridge.
A selection of others called elsewhere - e.g. Dinting, Hadfield or Dunford Bridge.
** - Extended on summer saturdays to Cleethorpes (08:25) & Skegness (08:55)

Sundays dep 01:17; 09:40; 11:40; 14:40; 16:40; 18:40; 21:10

From Sheffield Victoria, depart 07:56; 08:45; 09:45; 10:45; 11:45; 12:13 (SO, summer only, from Cambridge, called only at Guide Bridge); 12:45 (from Parkeston Quay); 13:45**; 14:45; 15:45**; 16:50; 17:45; 18:50; 19:50; 20:50; 21:45; 22:45.
**- On summer sats, 13:45 originated at Skegness, 15:45 originated at Cleethorpes.

Sundays, dep. 09:30; 12:30; 14:30; 16:30; 19:30; 20:40; 22:15.

Hope Valley line. Apart from summer saturday services between Manchester & Yarmouth, there were only local services between Manchester & Sheffield, many requiring a change at Chinley or New Mills Central. Times irregular - 9 local services per day from Sheffield (Midland)

Also using the Hope Valley, but using Dore south curve (avoiding Sheffield) were the residual MML services from St. Pancras (5 per day) or Nottingham (2) and Manchester Piccadilly. On Sundays, one Hope Valley service in each direction served Liverpool Lime St. (via Warrington Central)

 

[Taunton]

At the end the daily Parkeston Quay service was hauled by a March depot Class 37 rather than an electric loco, all the way to Harwich. It was the only diesel service through Woodhead tunnel.

I am guessing it was about 1965 when this service was still running all the way to Liverpool Central, I was most surprised one afternoon to see it ready to leave from there behind a Britannia Pacific, the only express loco I ever saw in that station.

These services did not have electric train heating equipment so the Woodhead electric locos had train heating boilers and water tanks, all the Class 77 Co-Cos, and those of Class 76 which had names (the last ones built). I have always wondered whether the steam boilers were electric, like kettles (because I can't think of any other electric steam boiler), or oil fired like in diesels, with a fuel tank. Regarding those loco names, someone in the design office must have had a Latin/Greek school background, because the Class 76 had male classical names, and the Class 77 had female ones.

 

[Springs Branch]

As luck would have it, when I read this post I had the LMR Passenger Timetable for 1969/70 at hand (as you do!) and the scanner on.

I've posted scans of Table 117, Eastbound and Westbound (which duplicates some of the info in post #5 above).

Timetable is dated 5 May 1969 to 3 May 1970.

Edit: rotated and uploaded as attachments. Links above amended accordingly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Apologies for the upside-down layout and blurriness sometimes at the edges - I had to scan in a rush with no time for corrections.

Being 0300 when all my creative thoughts are finely honed and hoping to attain my 70th birthday in three months time, your comments about the timetable in the scan being upside down immediately brought to mind a source of resolution of that particular stated matter from the words of the first two verses of the poem by Lewis Carroll....."You Are Old, Father William":-

"You are old, Father William", the young man said,
"And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head,
Do you think, at your age, it is right?"

"In my youth", Father William replied to his son,
"I feared it might injure my brain,
But now that I'm perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again"

 

[steevp]

"You Are Old, Father William":-

"You are old, Father William", the young man said,
"And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head,
Do you think, at your age, it is right?"

"In my youth", Father William replied to his son,
"I feared it might injure my brain,
But now that I'm perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again"

You may be nearing your 7/10ths of a century, but that is no excuse - no standing on your head Father Paul (even if it makes some posts easier to read)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apologies for the upside-down layout and blurriness sometimes at the edges - I had to scan in a rush with no time for corrections.

Excellent stuff Springs Branch - brings these things to life (even if I also to stand on my head along with Paul ) - thanks for posting!

 

[Taunton]

“You are old, Father Taunton", the young man said,
"And your hair has become very white;
And yet you never stood on your head,
When those Woodhead times came into sight"

"In my youth", Father Taunton replied to young Geoff,
“I learned to do Shift-Control-Plus twice
Do that, to any old PDF
And, my boy, it’s turned round in a trice”.

 

[steevp]

“You are old, Father Taunton", the young man said,
"And your hair has become very white;
And yet you never stood on your head,
When those Woodhead times came into sight"

"In my youth", Father Taunton replied to young Geoff,
“I learned to do Shift-Control-Plus twice
Do that, to any old PDF
And, my boy, it’s turned round in a trice”.

He He - that is a new one on me. I can have some fun with that one!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As luck would have it, when I read this post I had the LMR Passenger Timetable for 1969/70 at hand (as you do!) and the scanner on.

I've posted scans of Table 117, Eastbound and Westbound (which duplicates some of the info in post #5 above).

Timetable is dated 5 May 1969 to 3 May 1970.

Apologies for the upside-down layout and blurriness sometimes at the edges - I had to scan in a rush with no time for corrections.

Brilliant stuff! Much appreciated!

 

[billh]

These services did not have electric train heating equipment so the Woodhead electric locos had train heating boilers and water tanks, all the Class 77 Co-Cos, and those of Class 76 which had names (the last ones built). I have always wondered whether the steam boilers were electric, like kettles (because I can't think of any other electric steam boiler), or oil fired like in diesels, with a fuel tank. Regarding those loco names, someone in the design office must have had a Latin/Greek school background, because the Class 76 had male classical names, and the Class 77 had female ones.[/QUOTE]

Electric Boilers- conventional looking on the outside but with big immersion heater type elements . Working steam pressure about 50psi. I have a water level gauge from one of these. Could they claim to be ETH fitted? eg 76451 or even 26(4)51?. One may question the wisdom of fitting a possibly leaky boiler and auxiliaries in a high voltage DC machine!
Bill

 

[Springs Branch]

Since I probably annoyed everyone with a half-upside-down Woodhead post, maybe I can redeem myself with a couple of other interesting timetables from the south Pennines in the same period.

These show details of other services just before the Sheffield/Manchester trains were diverted from Woodhead in Jan 1970, and include two lines which closed at the same time.

1) Hope Valley

As Bevan Price has commented, local services were irregular & operated from Sheffield to New Mills or Chinley only (the Piccadilly times are the light italic connecting services).
Notice also that BR still combined Derby/Matlock times with the Hope Valley in the same table. Presumably the 1969 version was like 1968's issue, but with the stations at Bakewell, Millers Dale etc eliminated.

2) New Mills & Rose Hill Marple lines (when these trains actually ran to Hayfield & Macclesfield via Bollington).

I find this interesting because, although long-gone and seemingly in the distant past, the Hayfield & Macclesfield services shown here were not operated by tank engines & maroon non-corridor coaches. They would be familar 1st Gen DMUs, mostly in Rail Blue with yellow ends, BR double arrow logos etc. and at the Manchester end under the nominal authority of the new Selnec PTE. And at Piccadilly & Macclesfield would meet up with spiffy new Class 86-hauled Inter-City trains in recently rebuilt stations.

Timetables were effective from 5 May 1969 to Jan 1970.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The 1969 Hope Valley pdf has a good example of railway times long passed as there is a SO service from Yarmouth Vauxhall shown that arrived at Sheffield Midland at 1650 and Manchester Victoria at 1806.

 

[Bevan Price]

The 1969 Hope Valley pdf has a good example of railway times long passed as there is a SO service from Yarmouth Vauxhall shown that arrived at Sheffield Midland at 1650 and Manchester Victoria at 1806.

And until 1966 or 1967, the equivalent service was one of the last cross-Pennine express services booked for steam power between Sheffield & Manchester.


(As an aside, I have been compiling lists of "summer saturday" services from various resorts (mostly from the 1950s); it may eventually get onto my website, but would anyone be interested if I posted the lists in this Railway History & Nostalgia section (in instalments, it is incomplete, but already quite long)

 

[Senex]

(As an aside, I have been compiling lists of "summer saturday" services from various resorts (mostly from the 1950s); it may eventually get onto my website, but would anyone be interested if I posted the lists in this Railway History & Nostalgia section (in instalments, it is incomplete, but already quite long)

Definitely interested!

 

[Ash Bridge]

And until 1966 or 1967, the equivalent service was one of the last cross-Pennine express services booked for steam power between Sheffield & Manchester.


(As an aside, I have been compiling lists of "summer saturday" services from various resorts (mostly from the 1950s); it may eventually get onto my website, but would anyone be interested if I posted the lists in this Railway History & Nostalgia section (in instalments, it is incomplete, but already quite long)

Yes, me too!

 

[AM9]

And until 1966 or 1967, the equivalent service was one of the last cross-Pennine express services booked for steam power between Sheffield & Manchester.


(As an aside, I have been compiling lists of "summer saturday" services from various resorts (mostly from the 1950s); it may eventually get onto my website, but would anyone be interested if I posted the lists in this Railway History & Nostalgia section (in instalments, it is incomplete, but already quite long)

My only memory of cross-Pennine steam was at Easter 1962 on a stay for a week at Edale Youth Hostel. We went from St Pancras to Chinley, probably hauled by a diesel, I would have remembered steam. We then changed to a local train to Edale. I can remember that it was a few non-corridor compartment coaches hauled by a large tank (think 2-6-4) bunker first. The trundle through Cowburn Tunnel was choking us.
During the stay, we walked over to Castleton, and over Kinder more than once, and I distinctly remember being high on the slopes seeing the plume of the train at the bottom of the valley. How I wish that I had taken some pictures of that sight.